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Topic: Chopin Nocturne in C Sharp minor, F# or D# in measure 8  (Read 5366 times)

Offline richardb

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Chopin Nocturne in C Sharp minor, F# or D# in measure 8
on: December 26, 2014, 11:19:02 PM
In measure 8 of this video the first bass note is F#


But in the score below it's D#  What's up with this?  Are there two versions of this Nocturne? 


Does one of the scores have an error or misprint?

Although I'm just an amateur I thought I'd try to master this beautiful piece. But now I've got to decide to play either the D# or the F#.  What do you recommend? 


Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C Sharp minor, F# or D# in measure 8
Reply #1 on: December 26, 2014, 11:31:31 PM
If I didn't have any other references, I'd go with the one that is harmonically correct or the one that sounds correct.

Offline richardb

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C Sharp minor, F# or D# in measure 8
Reply #2 on: December 26, 2014, 11:42:36 PM
If I didn't have any other references, I'd go with the one that is harmonically correct or the one that sounds correct.

Thanks.  I think it sounds better with the F sharp.

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C Sharp minor, F# or D# in measure 8
Reply #3 on: December 27, 2014, 12:04:14 AM
Good choice and kudos following your ears.  All the editions I have agree that it's F#.

Offline amytsuda

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C Sharp minor, F# or D# in measure 8
Reply #4 on: December 27, 2014, 02:45:27 PM
This is funny. Do you hear in both videos the person is playing with D#? I agree with both of you, F# feels more like Chopin.

Offline richardb

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C Sharp minor, F# or D# in measure 8
Reply #5 on: December 27, 2014, 04:55:14 PM
.. Do you hear in both videos the person is playing with D#? ..

Wow, you're right, thanks for catching that! Playing it on my own piano it sounded better with F# though.  I wanted to use those youtube videos mainly just to show the score (and because I finally figured out how to embed youtube videos which I think is really cool!)

When learning a new piece I sometimes compare scores, for fingering suggestions, etc.  I went back to https://imslp.org/wiki/Nocturne_in_C-sharp_minor,_B.49_(Chopin,_Frédéric) where there are 5 scores.
The Misc. Notes for the 4th one says:
Quote
The original Chopin manuscript has an D# as the first and fifth notes of the left hand in bar 8, not F# as shown in this version.
The Misc. Notes for the 5th one:
Quote
Some editions show D# as the first and fifth notes of the left hand in bar 8: this must be a mistake, since it does not sound right harmonically...
Finally under General Information, Misc. Comments it says
Quote
    Main soundtrack of the 2002 film The Pianist. A comparison of the piece played by Adrien Brody in the film with the score above will illustrate some differences. This is because the PDF version provided above is a slightly simplified version that contains some modifications from the original Chopin manuscript. The Henle Urtext versions, considered by many to be accurate, appears to contain many editorial modifications from the original manuscripts, including the F# in place of the original D# as mentioned in the miscellaneous notes above. The Leon Erdstein edition appears to be faithful to the original manuscript, for this particular piece at least. Finally, the Paderewski editions of Chopin, considered by some to be spurious, contain a commentary at the back of the volume which details the sources with any known modifications clearly listed.
Didn't notice these comments at first - I wanted to get right to playing the piece.  But I include them here for completeness, or in case anyone else is interested. 

On the one hand, I'd like to play it the way Chopin wrote it. On the other hand I think it sounds better with the F#. 

Offline bronnestam

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C Sharp minor, F# or D# in measure 8
Reply #6 on: December 28, 2014, 05:17:39 PM
My notes say D sharp and my teacher's say F sharp. We agreed rather quickly that F sharp sounds much better, so that is what I play. I have heard both versions in different recordings. So - I guess the only right thing to do is to play what you like the best. After all, you don't play for the sake of Chopin, for "what he intended", but for the sake of music.

Offline chopinlover01

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C Sharp minor, F# or D# in measure 8
Reply #7 on: December 29, 2014, 11:50:04 AM
When I was much younger I used to (tried to) play this nocturne. I played mostly by ear, and I did F# most of the time. But my score then (As does my henle now) says D#, and the more I played it, the more it grew on me.
Chopin wished this nocturne (along with everything after Opus 65) to be BURNED, perhaps this is why X)

Offline transparently

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C Sharp minor, F# or D# in measure 8
Reply #8 on: December 29, 2014, 03:42:27 PM
According to the RCM piano book, it is F#.

Offline luct

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Re: Chopin Nocturne in C Sharp minor, F# or D# in measure 8
Reply #9 on: January 07, 2015, 06:10:18 PM
Hello, Chopin did not have a clear writing, many uncertainties have for this reason,the edition best is curtext, I have bought it , in fact includes both versions, so you might as well choose which version you like more and then play it.. :)
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