Why does my jazz chords doesn't sound lush enough?

[jason_sioco]

I am studying Jazz Piano and my teacher taught me a way to play jazz chords. If it's a C Major 7, instead of playing from bottom to top C E G B (that's too whitebread) if the melody note is G on the first beat, you play C on the Bass, because it is the root note, G on the top and play E and B around C and G. Extensions are also the same approach.

My problem is that when I listen to recordings, the chords sound more lushful. My teacher's chords sound so lushful, while mine is only a little bit. I am not sure if the problem is the piano. I own a Yamaha Arius and I feel discouraged every time I play. The only solution to my problem is if I can transcribe chord voicings, but that is impossible for me right now.

Is there a book or a dvd (music sheets), where I can learn all these lush chord voicings? You might say "Ask your teacher.", but he is only preparing me for an exam right now and he is not teaching me anymore.

My favorite jazz pianist by the way is Don Thompson.

[theholygideons]

I don't study jazz, but what's the point of lushness if all you're creating is just dissonant sounding chords? you should be focusing on the chord progressions, and how to build the tension through harmony. Then, some chords will appear lusher relative to others. I would even consider the music of composers like Schubert to be very lush.

[faulty_damper]

By "lush" do you mean full?  Assuming it's not a piano issue (you and your teacher play the same piano and you sound different) then it's likely:

a) chords aren't depressed together
b) notes within the chord aren't loud enough

[louispodesta]

I am studying Jazz Piano and my teacher taught me a way to play jazz chords. If it's a C Major 7, instead of playing from bottom to top C E G B (that's too whitebread) if the melody note is G on the first beat, you play C on the Bass, because it is the root note, G on the top and play E and B around C and G. Extensions are also the same approach.

My problem is that when I listen to recordings, the chords sound more lushful. My teacher's chords sound so lushful, while mine is only a little bit. I am not sure if the problem is the piano. I own a Yamaha Arius and I feel discouraged every time I play. The only solution to my problem is if I can transcribe chord voicings, but that is impossible for me right now.

Is there a book or a dvd (music sheets), where I can learn all these lush chord voicings? You might say "Ask your teacher.", but he is only preparing me for an exam right now and he is not teaching me anymore.

My favorite jazz pianist by the way is Don Thompson.

The basis of the entire modern approach to playing the piano, that you and I have been taught, is exactly the same as millions of other pianists.  However, my research has shown me that this methodology was and is historically in gross error.

Therefore, please listen to the link to my news story video, and maybe after that (through a PM), we can further the discussion.  Thank you for very insightful inquiry into this most important matter.

[j_menz]

@louispodesta: Are you just trying to find less and less relevant places to post the same old thing?

@OP - Have you moved on to chords other than 7ths? For jazz that's pretty vanilla and the lushness you hear elsewhere may be more harmonically adventurous chords.

[Petter]

Most pianists deal with this book https://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Piano-Book-Mark-Levine/dp/0961470151 in one way or another. It's been criticised for it's focus on chord scale relationships as a means to improvise, and I agree. But it's good for voicings.

[faulty_damper]

@louispodesta: Are you just trying to find less and less relevant places to post the same old thing?

Just because you don't find it relevant doesn't mean it isn't relevant.  It's very useful to offer alternatives that seem to have historical meaning, even if it isn't directly related to the OPs issue, because it provides further background knowledge.  It also provides opportunities for experimentation in performance.

[louispodesta]

Just because you don't find it relevant doesn't mean it isn't relevant.  It's very useful to offer alternatives that seem to have historical meaning, even if it isn't directly related to the OPs issue, because it provides further background knowledge.  It also provides opportunities for experimentation in performance.

Extremely well put.

To summarize the opinions/knowledge of Dr.'s Kenneth Hamilton ("After the Golden Age"), and Neal Peres Da Costa ("Off The Record"), this is exactly the reason it is so important to study the history of piano performance.

That is why anyone who matriculates at a university level in the UK (as a result of the research of Dr. Clive Brown) is now "required" to study the historical performance practice of not only the keyboard instruments, but also the orchestra/symphony/chamber music (and its instruments), and the entire vocal discipline.

As I have often stated, what other serious study of any of the other fine arts would not mandate the study of how it was originally done.  That is the way it was in the 19th century regarding the study of piano.

And then after World War II, the music conservatories immersed themselves in a bastardized version of modernity/modernism (Urtext), which unfortunately, in my opinion, is what we are left with now.

[faulty_damper]

The main reason why I don't like Schumann's and Brahm's music is because it's too heavy, referring to the excessive amount of chords.  It sounds terrible!  However, when the chords are performed with the bass anticipating the downbeat, the sound is less heavy and I can hear why this is actually a better musical solution.  It also adds textural complexity since it makes clear that these chords have separate voices.

Now transferring this to jazz performance, I can definitely hear the benefits instead of smashing chords simultaneously.  It's much less aggressive and lends itself better to be heard in melodic contexts, especially when the voices span many octaves.

This was a solution in Baroque keyboard music, the "rolling chords" that is taught to harpsichordists and some transferred this technique to the piano.

NB: Rosalyn Tureck (known primarily for her Bach performances and scholarship) also employed this technique in her performances of the Preludes and Fugues as well as the Suites.  So this technique isn't limited to just chords.

[j_menz]

Jazz has it's own long tradition of broken chords and playing with rather than on the beat. Learning that tradition is essential if one is to perform jazz.

However, it is not the same as mid 19th century practice. and to confound the two is plain silliness.

@ faulty: if this is new to you, you really do need to get out more.

[theholygideons]

Who the f*** cares about rolling chords and playing the bass before the beat. Keep it to its own discussion, it does not constitute all this additional talk. Faulty damper all you do is talk about technique. Also, J_menz is right about Romantic practise being separate from jazz.

[faulty_damper]

Who the f*** cares about rolling chords and playing the bass before the beat. Keep it to its own discussion, it does not constitute all this additional talk. Faulty damper all you do is talk about technique. Also, J_menz is right about Romantic practise being separate from jazz.

'

Who made you the moderator?  No one.  You're not one.  You didn't even bother to add to the discussion.  You just came in to bash people for expressing their ideas.  This isn't the first time so this is a pattern of behavior which needs to stop.

[falala]

Just because you don't find it relevant doesn't mean it isn't relevant.

One wonders what would lead us to conclude that something isn't relevant, if not the fact that we "don't find it relevant"/ 

It's very useful to offer alternatives that seem to have historical meaning, even if it isn't directly related to the OPs issue, because it provides further background knowledge.  It also provides opportunities for experimentation in performance.

Yes very good. And absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with jazz chord voicing.

[falala]

Extremely well put.

To summarize the opinions/knowledge of Dr.'s Kenneth Hamilton ("After the Golden Age"), and Neal Peres Da Costa ("Off The Record"), this is exactly the reason it is so important to study the history of piano performance.

That is why anyone who matriculates at a university level in the UK (as a result of the research of Dr. Clive Brown) is now "required" to study the historical performance practice of not only the keyboard instruments, but also the orchestra/symphony/chamber music (and its instruments), and the entire vocal discipline.

As I have often stated, what other serious study of any of the other fine arts would not mandate the study of how it was originally done.  That is the way it was in the 19th century regarding the study of piano.

And then after World War II, the music conservatories immersed themselves in a bastardized version of modernity/modernism (Urtext), which unfortunately, in my opinion, is what we are left with now.

Wow, even longer.

And STILL managing to have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with jazz chgord voicing.

[falala]

I am studying Jazz Piano and my teacher taught me a way to play jazz chords. If it's a C Major 7, instead of playing from bottom to top C E G B (that's too whitebread) if the melody note is G on the first beat, you play C on the Bass, because it is the root note, G on the top and play E and B around C and G. Extensions are also the same approach.

I don't quite understand what you mean here. What do you mean by E and B "around" C & G?

Are you talking about single bass notes in the left hand, and four-note chords in the right? Or chords spread across both hands, with several notes in each?

Suppose that G is the start of a five-note phrase: G - G - A - A - G. And I ask you to harmonise it with the chords C major 7, A7, D minor 7, G9. C major 7. Could you list what notes you would use from the top down, for each chord?

[pianoman53]

I'd suggest you to record something and post it here. While most of us are classical pianists, many of us also either play, or listen, to jazz.

It's very difficult to tell you what's wrong when we sort of have to guess what you mean.

[Bob]

Ditto on posting something, either written or a video.  That's what I was thinking.

I was thinking voicing, spacing out the notes to make it sound fuller.