Injury?

[pianoman53]

Hi all,

My left hand has been acting weird the last month or so.
There is no pain, at all.

Though, the problem is that my 2nd and 3rd finger can't work together.

Whenever I play the 2nd finger, there is a small, and fast, spasm in the third finger. And whenever I play fast (say, 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1....) the second finger gets stuck, and the third finger is really high.


Did anyone experience this before?
I'm a little bit worried, because I can't play anything that has any type of scale in the left hand...

I'll post a video later, if you need it.

[verqueue]

That's weird.
Are you sure you don't have a tension in your hand? Is this thing happen when you play really slowly?

Video could be helpful, so please post it.

[pianoman53]

That's weird.
Are you sure you don't have a tension in your hand? Is this thing happen when you play really slowly?

Video could be helpful, so please post it.

I think I have a tension in my hand, cause it doesn't happen when I play really slowly. But it needs to be indeed very slow. I'll post a video tomorrow.

When I play fast, the second finger curls veeeery much...

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I'd recommend going to a doctor and trying to get referred to a specialist, for example a sports injury physiotherapist. I obviously can't give any specialist advice, but I did once have a problem which was probably caused by bad, excessive practice, and after x-ray or some other investigation it was diagnosed as a torn tendon sheath in the fifth finger (I think - it was a long time ago!)

[hardy_practice]

Very bad news.  Don't push it - play only slowly.

[pianoman53]

I went to a physiotherapist, and he said that my wrist got blocked, after some too heavy practicing. Because of that, my lower arm started over-compensating, and eventually went too far.
He tried to convince me that it would be fine, and that it was just a matter of time... But ya "Noo, the fact that your left hand was better when you had played piano for a year is nothing to worry about!" is not always super reassuring.

I pretty much only practice slowly, and it gets a little better... I pretty much just wanted to see if anyone else have had anything like this.

[ted]

It is good that you are conscious of it starting to happen. The thing to avoid is trying to force it to come right. I had just such an involuntary movement and ignored it. It upset the balance of the whole hand and getting rid of it was one of the most difficult struggles I have ever had and took four years. You don't have to reach that stage because there is likely time to nip it in the bud right now with sensible, careful playing instead of bullocking away at everything as I did and paying a price.

By all means consult whatever experts or doctors you wish, there may be underlying physical causes. Some piano teachers may be able to help, but they will need to be exceptionally observant. Whatever else you do, I strongly recommend you examine your whole playing mechanism without delay, with a view to finding and relearning those aspects which are damaging. It is a bit of a nuisance, and might imply lots of temporary musical compromises, but far better now than later, I can assure you of that.  

[faulty_damper]

I'm experiencing schadenfreude right now.

Some students at my school had the same issues.  One thing they both had in common was the excessive reliance on moving the fingers to play.  You could almost balance a coin on the back of their hands while their fingers clawed around the keys.  They wrapped up their hand and wrist in bandages and it seemed to help them a little.  But what helped them most was not playing for a few weeks while they recovered.  I never cared for the playing, though, and they were kind of arrogant so I never told them what they were doing wrong.  They wouldn't have listened to me, anyway.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I went to a physiotherapist, and he said that my wrist got blocked, after some too heavy practicing. Because of that, my lower arm started over-compensating, and eventually went too far.
He tried to convince me that it would be fine, and that it was just a matter of time...

That's a little worrying - whilst what happened to me sounds different, the one I saw at least took my opinion and self-diagnosis of the situation at face value and did a proper medical examination. I hesitate to suggest any practical measures based on my experience, but a break from practice and the application of Pernaton gel probably did the trick for me. Ted is probably right in suggesting that you evaluate your playing mechanism.

[pianoman53]

Well, then he opened up the wrist and said that I needed to practice the lower arm, because it was obviously a bit out of shape.

The thing that's confusing is that I don't feel any pain, at all...

[ted]

The thing that's confusing is that I don't feel any pain, at all...

That is precisely what I do find concerning. I had no pain either, just loss of motor control. You are  wise not to take it lightly.

[hardy_practice]

It could easily be the beginnings of dystonia.  The answer is to go back to square one - if you can get someone to show you where that is.

[pianoman53]

Another thing is that it's only between two and three. I can play scales in a valid tempo, if I play 1-2-4-5... or 1-3-4-5
...

[j_menz]

It may be worth considering, what else have you been doing that might be (even slightly) different in the last month or so? Not every issue is directly piano related, though it does have a rather nasty way of highlighting things.

[pianoman53]

I didn't really do anything special... Oh, I started working out, but then I stopped, and then quite some time after that, this started to happen.

But as the physiotherapy said, my wrist was blocked, bla blabla.. then both the muscles on the lower arm got a bit over worked, and then this happened.

I'll go to him again in a few days, and he'll hopefully tell me that this is perfectly normal, and nothing to worry about...

[ronde_des_sylphes]

It doesn't sound like nothing to worry about. As it's confined to between two fingers, I would suspect that you've damaged specific tissue in that area. I still think it would be a good idea to have an x-ray or ultrasound done to investigate and see if an actual physical problem can be established: unfortunately these things cost money and your health service may be reluctant to spend it.

[pianoman53]

It doesn't sound like nothing to worry about. As it's confined to between two fingers, I would suspect that you've damaged specific tissue in that area. I still think it would be a good idea to have an x-ray or ultrasound done to investigate and see if an actual physical problem can be established: unfortunately these things cost money and your health service may be reluctant to spend it.

Ye.. If he says that there is nothing more to do, I'll go for the x-ray.
I live in Amsterdam, and there is a hand clinic there, that I'll go to, if the physio doesn't help anymore.

It got a bit better since my first visit, but obviously it's not good yet.

[pianoman53]

So an update:

I visited my old piano teacher, who is somewhat an expert on hands.

The spasm in the third finger was a compensation for the 2nd finger, and the second finger was a compensation for the weak knuckles in the 4th and 5th finger, and they compensated for the wrist that was stuck.

So, as far as now, I'm not damaged! Woho!

[ted]

Regardless of whether the teacher is right or wrong, I still feel that you would be wise to work immediately from first principles and cause and effect to prevent all this "compensation" from becoming embedded in your playing brain, your musical habits and emotions. Once it does that you are in for a serious and protracted struggle. What I would do, what I ought to have done when I had my issue, is realise that regardless of complicated conjectures and guesswork, my playing has to change. Musicians don't like changing technique, it has all sorts of fundamental aesthetic, social and creative implications. Moreover, in the end, making music is such a personal activity, such a quale; you are the only one who knows how you feel when you play.

To the extent that anything can be understood on the internet, I agree with ronde_des_sylphes. I too think this particular symptom is something to be very concerned about. I know because I took it lightly myself and paid a stupid price.  

[pianoman53]

Yes. I meant that I'm not yet actually injured, so it's only a matter of changing to a different way.. And I am aware of how to do it.

The third finger got  a spasm because I didn't actually play with my second finger, but played it with the wrist. So when the wrist went down, the third finger had to raise, in order to have room to play. We did some exercises, and when I did it correctly, my thumb wasn't tensed, and the fingers didn't go up.


So yes, I will obviously change my technique, and be more aware so that it doesn't go wrong.