Chopin - Fantasie Impromptu, Op 66

[perfect_pitch]

Greetings, I just wanted to ask any recording aficionados about what they thought of my recording - not the quality of my playing (as I recorded this at 10pm at night when I was very tired, but I wanted almost complete silence from outside), but more on advice about the balance in the recording. I'm using a Zoom H2 and tweaked it a little already adding a little more to the treble and just cut a little off the bass.

Anyone have any advice? Or tips on getting a better recording quality from the mic?



(And YES, I know my piano is out of tune - it's hot here in Australia and Yamaha pianos don't like it).

[faulty_damper]

It's miked too close to the strings, the treble more accurately.  You need to put the mike much farther away, 10 feet perhaps.  This allows the sound to blend and more evenly hit the mike.  Just how far away really depends on the room acoustics.  It's basically trial and error.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I've heard worse sounding Yamahas! The audio seems a little biased to the left. The bass seems rather vague and lacking definition in places; could be my headphones though which aren't the best. Could also be a consequence of the equalisation though.

[perfect_pitch]

You need to put the mike much farther away, 10 feet perhaps.  This allows the sound to blend and more evenly hit the mike. 

Mmmm... problem is, I live next to a not too busy road, but next to that is a freakin' highway, so I'm desperately trying to filter out the incessant noise of cars.

The audio seems a little biased to the left. The bass seems rather vague and lacking definition in places

Okay, here is the original audio without equalisation. Is it better or worse in terms of balance?

[ted]

I have used a Zoom H2 for five years. Aside from the many parameters to do with the room and the piano, there are several parameters on the H2 itself. Testing all of these combinations, I recall, took about two days. The good part was that I only had to do it once. The strange part was that the best recording resulted from one of the more unlikely sets of parameters, certainly not the ones suggested on the internet or the ones I tried first. Had I not operated from first principles and relied on my own ear I almost certainly wouldn't have found it.

Both your recordings sound skewed toward the left to me. You could try separating the channels in Audacity and amplifying the weaker one. I have occasionally done that and it doesn't seem to affect the listening focus. Anybody here probably knows more about recording than I do though.

[ted]

Yes, they are both skewed:





Try splitting the channels and amplifying the weaker one. Ideally, you would want to modify the recording setup to keep this sort of thing to a minimum I suppose.

[quantum]

Experiment through placing the recorder at various distance, height, and angle to the piano.  A mic stand helps tremendously here, as opposed to placing the recorder on available surfaces.  The H2 also has various mic patterns available, play with these as well.  

As said above, try backing the recorder away from the piano.  Your particular room will have its own resonance characteristics, so you will need to find the best positions to place your recorder.  You can start by placing the recorder around an imaginary arc that surrounds your piano.  Find the best position on the arc, then continue to tweak from there.  

I've listened to both the original and your edited versions, and the original sounds more natural to me even with the bias towards the left channel.  The edited version seems to bring too much attention to artifacts in the right channel. 

Are you able to do independent level adjustments on each channel?  You may want to double check that they are both set the same. 

[perfect_pitch]

Mmmm... I've never actually edited sound before really... This was my first time fiddling with things.

I think I can use a program to edit the sound levels, but whether I can just get them both normalised to the same level is another thing.

I'll experiment with a couple of different positions with the mic tomorrow and see what I come up with. Thanks for the tips... I've never ever dealt with this sort of stuff before, so thanks for the help.

[quantum]

For recording this genre of music, generally you want to do as much as possible with pre-production rather than relying on post-production.  That is: mic selection, stereo technique selection, instrument placement, and mic placement.  When you take the time to get these things to your liking before the recording, there will be minimal need to EQ and correct in post. 

The H2 will allow you to fiddle with most of these things, including polar patterns. 

I'd encourage you to share audio clips of your experiments, it may help others with the same recorder. 

[perfect_pitch]

I know I said I would try experiment today, but some bastard broke the fence on my front garden, so I spent most of today trying to ascertain the parts to fix it.

My apologies... I do intend on having some time and playing about with different settings for the mic etc... The piano however is staying exactly where it is because... it's really, really heavy.    

[quantum]

You mean you don't have a stage crew handy at home to move your piano around 

You can do things like change how much the lid is propped up.  If you have drapes or blinds, opening and closing them can change the room acoustic. 

[perfect_pitch]

You mean you don't have a stage crew handy at home to move your piano around 

You can do things like change how much the lid is propped up.  If you have drapes or blinds, opening and closing them can change the room acoustic. 

I've also got custom acoustic panels put up for my room, so I'm not sure how much the blinds will change it with the panels already up. I'll give it a go though...

Although, I like the curtains being closed so that when I do video recordings, it looks much better.

[perfect_pitch]

Okay, had a bit better luck with the combining of the channels in trying to match them up more evenly. I'm hoping this will have been a better job. I think it might be, but I leave it up to people with more experience...

I have attached the Left channel, the Right channel recording and them both combined after being normalised (not that I think they were uneven)...

[faulty_damper]

It still sounds like it's miked too close.  It sounds very tinny.

[perfect_pitch]

I'll try pull it away from the piano then... I'm just hoping the ambient noise outside doesn't start to interfere...     

[perfect_pitch]

Sorry to double post...

Just thought I would take the time to post a recording of a new microphone position, as well as ask for criticism on my performance of Chopins Fantasie Impromptu. I only learnt this as I truly never have tried to play it before, and there's a sense of fun in learning it.

[j_menz]

ABAC

A - Rhythm! Not right  - close but no cigar. The second A section is pretty right, so you can do it.

B- Rubato really should only be done with the treble. You do it in both, and sometimes both (differently) at once. Slightly fast for my taste, but you are at liberty to disagree.

A (again) - Not bad. Needs a little more dynamic oomph at the local level, but generally quite an improvement on the first time round . A few unstable bits pulse-wise, but otherwise pretty good.

C - Not a bit I claim to have ever really understood (even playing it). You haven't helped, but neither has anyone else and you haven't hindered either. Again, some unstable pulse and dynamics odd to my ears, but I can't claim to have any much idea what Chopin had in mind for this bit, so please treat largely as a "no comment".

[perfect_pitch]

A - Rhythm! Not right  - close but no cigar. The second A section is pretty right, so you can do it.

Okay - Wait a minute... It's basically 3 LH notes again 4 RH notes. What's wrong with it?

B- Rubato really should only be done with the treble. You do it in both, and sometimes both (differently) at once. Slightly fast for my taste, but you are at liberty to disagree.

I'll admit, the tempo on this is still something I'm working on. I still wanted to keep the feel of the cut common time signature, even through the tempo is Largo.

Again, some unstable pulse and dynamics odd to my ears, but I can't claim to have any much idea what Chopin had in mind for this bit, so please treat largely as a "no comment".

I had a memory lapse and make quite a bugger up, so yeah I got a little disheveled there. I know the C section needs more work. I want to try and tidy this up before Friday next week.

How was my pedalling? What about the sound from the microphone? Do you like the sound better?

[j_menz]

Okay - Wait a minute... It's basically 3 LH notes again 4 RH notes. What's wrong with it?

That bit is fine. It's 6v8, though and the bars should have a one-two feel, not so much a 1-2-3-4 feel.  I think it's a case of some residue of the learning process still hanging around (as happens). As I say, in the second run through of the A section it clears away nicely.

How was my pedalling? What about the sound from the microphone? Do you like the sound better?

Pedalling seems fine.

Recording seems fine. Haven't got my speakers set "just right" at present so don't take that as more than "seems" (or less).

[janberry]

Your recording is great and I very much enjoyed it. I am not an expert and you very well may play this piece better than me, but having played it makes my ear more keen and I can tell you the effect your interpretation had on me.

Your technicality is good; the 16th notes were played pretty evenly. You are looking for feedback so here are my suggestions!

A - Right hand starts out louder than intro. Intended? Recording issue? This section felt rushed at times. Not that the tempo is too fast, but my ear wanted to linger longer on areas where you had slight ritard and from my perspective, could have left it there a little longer. At times seemed like right hand was trying to catch up with your left in areas where right hand would be more comfortable playing the notes slower. I liked your increase in intensity in the octave part.

B - I like the way you played this section the most. You showed a lot more patience and confidence in this section. I would have liked to hear the trills be more delicate and ornate and transition more smoothly to their attached note. I liked how you kept the left hand delicate so that the right hand could be the star of the show. Rubatos here much slower and with natural flow.

A - I agree. Section A sounded more controlled second time around. With technicality achieved, you could work on the dramatics!  

C - The left hand currently sounds like a march and I would suggest phrasing the left hand with legato and softer as in section A, but you don't have to. Also making contrasts in the fast part from forte to piano could be powerful and dramatic. In the major section, at times the right hand overpowers the left melody, so making sure that the left hand is supported and given its moment. The soft pedal can help with giving this section the gentleness of a hopeful, rising sunset! lol

Altogether I really liked the way you played! Keep it up!