What next?

[cutthroatpiano]

So, i've been playing piano for about 3 years now and I learned a few 'complex' songs but none of them are too impressive. I want to test myself, but not jump too far forward. What are some recommendations for songs?

Completed songs:

Cancer - My Chemical Romance
Terrible Things - Mayday Parade
Wet Hands - c418
Truce - Twenty One Pilots


WIPs:

Skyfall - Adele (3/4)
Piano man - Billy Joel (1/2)
100 years - Five For Fighting (1/4)
Boston - Augustana (1/4)
My Immortal - Evanescence (3/4)
Mad World - Gary Jules (5/6)

[alistaircrane4]

I think this is the wrong site for you to ask this question judging from the "pieces" you've completed.

[j_menz]

I think this is the wrong site for you to ask this question judging from the "pieces" you've completed.

Not at all. This site is for all pianists.

One of the things about pop type songs is that the piano solo versions are all arrangements (even Piano Man) and so being able to judge where you are is made more difficult by not knowing what arrangement you've played.  That said, why not think of a few things you'd like to play and then do a search in one of the online music stores for a collection that contains some of them. That should then give you plenty to work with.

[chopincat]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that this is the wrong site for you, but since the majority of us are classical pianists, we're going to be much better at recommending classical pieces. Plus the arrangement issue like j_menz said. But if improving your piano technique is a long term goal for you, then classical is probably the most advisable direction to go in. Is that your goal?

[cutthroatpiano]

If you mean is improving my piano technique my long term goal, then yes. If you mean if playing classical music is, then i'm not completely sure. There are three songs i've wanted to play for a while now and I kinda want to be able to find anything I like and learn to play it, not just stick to one category.

Too ambitious?

[newkidintown]

Hi there! You sound a lot like me right after I quit taking lessons a few years back. I'm guessing you learned those songs from arrangements instead of arranging them yourself? If so, I'd recommend you do the following:

- Find a group to play in. If you don't have any musical friends, you can go to a music shop and ask if they have any suggestions and/or start in a reputable non-classical program. I, for one, am in an international program called School of Rock that I can't recommend highly enough (despite the cheesy name), that allows you to play with a lot of different musicians in a lot of different (albiet non-classical) styles. There's a lot of focus on technique and theory, too... In fact, I've learned more "technical stuff" in the past few months there than in my 7 years of lessons from various classical teachers. I use this as an example of the kind of thing you're looking for: a place with supportive musicians willing to help you grow in both musicianship and technique, no matter how traditional it is or isn't.

- Get a good repertoire of classical, blues, and jazz. At least three of each. I would personally advise reading classical from sheets (you can find plenty for free from imslp) and playing blues and jazz from a chart (check out The Real Book and The Real Blues Book for these, they're classics). Each is very handy for things like auditions and improvising, and will help you greatly in the next point...

- Take a "Dave Grohl" approach to music, as I call it, taking as many opportunities as you can. School orchestra has an opening for a pianist? Take it. Church nearby looking for an organist? Offer to work hard to learn organ to play for them until they can find a professional (yes, this has actually worked for people I know). Your friend has an old accordion they're trying to get rid of? Fix it up and learn to play. Don't overwhelm yourself, of course, but if there's an opportunity to do something music-related, try to do it. Even if you think it's pointless, you can learn so, so much.

- Write your own arrangements of songs. I started out with a free program called Musescore, translating guitar tabs like this: https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtdFPE.asp?ppn=MN0068479& into something playable for piano. As I learned new things from other endeavours, I got to the point that I could arrange a whole song from chords only, and sometimes only from listening to a song. Arranging like this teaches you so much, and serves as nice training for things you might need later on, like composing and arranging orchestral pieces for piano.

Do you have the files for or pictures of the arrangements you used for these songs? I'd need to see them to recommend any specific pieces. And let me know if I could help in any way, I know how difficult it can be to find some guidance off the beaten path.

[cutthroatpiano]

Actually, the only songs i've used arrangements for are Cancer and Piano man. For the others, I watched a tutorial video on youtube or made up most of it by myself. (I could Link the specific videos I used)

- Find a Group: I am participating in a 'keyboarding' class in school right now, but all we seem to be doing is learning simple songs out of a level 1 book.

- Get a good repertoire of classical, blues, and jazz: I for one don't have much of an interest in classical music. I'm not sure why though. Blues... I don't think i've ever tried that before. As for jazz, i've tried to play Rhapsody In Blue but gave up because I am terrible with sheet music.

- Take a "Dave Grohl" approach to music: My friend does covers of songs and I guess I could attempt to play the their songs but most of them are rock. I guess I could learn to play in my church but i'm too worried about playing in front of people.

- Write your own arrangements of songs: As I stated before, I am absolutely terrible with sheet music. For some reason I can only seem to remember middle C on the right hand. If I take a ton of time, I could probably figure out a few measures of a song but it takes way longer than I would hope. Maybe i'm just too impatient.

As for the arrangements, as I said I used a youtube video for the majority.

Cancer:
https://freealternativesheet.weebly.com/uploads/2/2/4/8/22481660/my_chemical_romance_-_cancer_sheet.pdf

Piano Man: (It only gives you the first page)
https://www.amazon.com/Billy-Joel-Greatest-Hits-Volumes/dp/B002K58E2Y/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

[newkidintown]

Actually, the only songs i've used arrangements for are Cancer and Piano man. For the others, I watched a tutorial video on youtube or made up most of it by myself. (I could Link the specific videos I used)

Then hey, you've already gotten a start. Even if you couldn't write down what you were playing or identify which aspects of theory you were using, you've still already started to think like you need to.

- Find a Group: I am participating in a 'keyboarding' class in school right now, but all we seem to be doing is learning simple songs out of a level 1 book.

The fact that it's called keyboarding is... concerning. You've tried it and it isn't going well, so I'd suggest moving on and looking for a more advanced group. It's always good to have a group more advanced than you that you can learn from and a group less advanced than you that you can teach.

- Get a good repertoire of classical, blues, and jazz: I for one don't have much of an interest in classical music. I'm not sure why though. Blues... I don't think i've ever tried that before. As for jazz, i've tried to play Rhapsody In Blue but gave up because I am terrible with sheet music.

I hate to be blunt, but I can't think of a better way of saying this... It doesn't matter whether you're interested in these genres. You said your long term goal is to improve your technique, and no matter which genre you're interested in, you can learn so so so much from jazz, classical, and blues. If you can't read sheet music well, you really should work on that. It's hard work, but then, so is being decent on piano in general. Based on the arrangements you linked to, I think starting with Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier would be good for you. Easy to read, just difficult enough to be a challenge for you, and amazing for technique. You don't have to restrict yourself to only playing those pieces, but they will make a great foundation for what you're hoping to do.

- Take a "Dave Grohl" approach to music: My friend does covers of songs and I guess I could attempt to play the their songs but most of them are rock. I guess I could learn to play in my church but i'm too worried about playing in front of people.

Go for it! If you're really truly nervous about playing in front of people and don't plan on ever performing, don't get too worked up about it. But don't hold out on something because of the genre. I mean, right now I'm playing in a rock band, playing polka and Russian folk on accordion (which I couldn't even play until two weeks ago) in a school theatre production, and playing for a production of Vivaldi's Gloria. I hated playing Vivaldi until now, and I still dislike polka and Russian folk, but each experience has been invaluable as far as making good connections and getting plenty of (mostly free) learning.

- Write your own arrangements of songs: As I stated before, I am absolutely terrible with sheet music. For some reason I can only seem to remember middle C on the right hand. If I take a ton of time, I could probably figure out a few measures of a song but it takes way longer than I would hope. Maybe i'm just too impatient.

Again, I hate to be blunt, but you are being too impatient. My first arrangement took months, but I'm a far better musician now because of it. And I never could have written or played any of what I'm playing now if I hadn't just stuck with it.

You need to realise that once you pass the beginner stage, improving takes patience, dedication, and hard work. Playing pop songs is fun, but if you're hoping to grow at all, you have to wander into the not-so-fun stuff, whether that's writing arrangements or playing Etudes or practising the same jazz piece for several months at what feels like a ridiculously slow pace.

[chopincat]

As for jazz, i've tried to play Rhapsody In Blue but gave up because I am terrible with sheet music.

Rhapsody in Blue isn't something that people consider to be straight jazz. The original score doesn't call for any improvisation. It's really kind of a fusion between classical and jazz. So if you have some interest in it, then you have some interest in classical music! It's not all Bach and Mozart, you know.

Not being able to play Rhapsody in Blue isn't necessarily a sign that you're terrible with sheet music. Very few people with only 3 years of experience are going to have an easy time playing a piece like that. It would probably be better to start with something a little less ambitious.

You need to realise that once you pass the beginner stage, improving takes patience, dedication, and hard work. Playing pop songs is fun, but if you're hoping to grow at all, you have to wander into the not-so-fun stuff, whether that's writing arrangements or playing Etudes or practising the same jazz piece for several months at what feels like a ridiculously slow pace.

I agree completely. And if you're truly interested in expanding your knowledge of piano technique and music in general, then you will probably enjoy it more than you think you will. It's only not-so-fun if you think of it that way.

[cutthroatpiano]

Based on the arrangements you linked to, I think starting with Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier would be good for you. Easy to read, just difficult enough to be a challenge for you, and amazing for technique.

Oh, oops. I forgot to list that one. Well, I learned it in a few days but I never perfected it (And I forgot most of it) so I guess I could try it again. I was actually thinking of trying out Moonlight Sonata but I guess thats a little too far.

[chopinlover01]

Wait.. are you saying you learnt the entire Bach WTC? Probably not.. but which Prelude and Fugue did you work on?

[cutthroatpiano]

Oh no, sorry. Not the entire thing, just prelude in C.

[chopinlover01]

That makes more sense, haha. Try out the other preludes and fugues. The fugue in c major is a 4 voice fugue so it may not be best for your first fugue. I'd recommend the c minor prelude and fugue. On that one, don't let the prelude intimidate you, especially if you listen to Sviatoslav Richter's rendition. It's simple and it's a good toccata like piece to improve finger dexterity. The fugue is also very musical (as are ALL of Bach's fugues and other compositions; don't let the two part inventions fool you into being etudes). Try also some Mozart if you feel like it. It's nice for showing off fingerwork.

[pianoplunker]

So, i've been playing piano for about 3 years now and I learned a few 'complex' songs but none of them are too impressive. I want to test myself, but not jump too far forward. What are some recommendations for songs?

Completed songs:

Cancer - My Chemical Romance
Terrible Things - Mayday Parade
Wet Hands - c418
Truce - Twenty One Pilots


WIPs:

Skyfall - Adele (3/4)
Piano man - Billy Joel (1/2)
100 years - Five For Fighting (1/4)
Boston - Augustana (1/4)
My Immortal - Evanescence (3/4)
Mad World - Gary Jules (5/6)

How about Black Parade by My Chemical Romance ? After all it has a nice little piano in the intro

[cutthroatpiano]

Try out the other preludes and fugues. The fugue in c major is a 4 voice fugue so it may not be best for your first fugue. I'd recommend the c minor prelude and fugue. On that one, don't let the prelude intimidate you, especially if you listen to Sviatoslav Richter's rendition. It's simple and it's a good toccata like piece to improve finger dexterity. The fugue is also very musical (as are ALL of Bach's fugues and other compositions; don't let the two part inventions fool you into being etudes). Try also some Mozart if you feel like it. It's nice for showing off fingerwork.

Alright, will do! Thanks for the recommendations! Would I be able to find sheet music for Bach's - WTC online or would a physical book be best? If the book's best, then where would be the best place to find one?

[chopincat]

Would I be able to find sheet music for Bach's - WTC online or would a physical book be best? If the book's best, then where would be the best place to find one?

In my opinion a book would be best - that would be a lot of sheet music to print out!! It's really easy to order books online, I tend to just get mine on Amazon. Henle probably has the best edition, but they're really expensive. I personally like Alfred because it's less pricey and the quality tends to be good. But everyone has their own preference.

[cutthroatpiano]

This is what I found

https://www.amazon.com/Well-Tempered-Clavier-Books-Complete-Dover/dp/0486245322/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421628460&sr=8-1&keywords=Bach%27s+WTC

Seems legit.

[j_menz]

Seems legit.

Yep. Dover tend to do reprints of earlier editions, quality generally pretty good, and nice and cheap. Not a scholarly Urtext edition, but perfectly suited to your needs.