Some questions about performance practise in Bach

[lelle]

I'm doing some research on performance practise in Bach because I'm playing one of the Wohltemperierte Klavier P&f's.

Whenever I come across a harpsichord recording, there seems to be much more rubato than what is usually heard in Bach, and it's played quite freely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=75vW-j3LLP8#t=6716
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hms_PF_CKV4#t=6859

On the other hand, when I hear recordings of Bach on a piano, it is often played very strictly, with very even pulse. But if the people who strive so hard for authentic Bach that they choose to play on period instruments don't play it this way, then why do we do it on the piano? Do you think one should play Bach very strictly or more freely? Please motivate why you prefer the one over the other.

My other question is about repeats. Some of the preludes in book 2 consist of two sections, each with a repeat. My teacher thinks my prelude "doesn't win much" by playing the repeats, and I tend to agree. However, Bach did write those repeats out, and if he didn't want them, he would've left them out right? What's your thoughts on playing repeats in Bach?
 

[visitor]

w harpsy there is little one can do to vary tone as it is uniform in sound from pluck to pluck.
generally harspy-ists tend to compress and elongate subdivisions of the beat or pulse in order to create variety in the 'tension' for expressive playing. to my understanding, they do not necessarily (or should not be) using 'rubato' as we commonly associate it today.

the pulse should stay pretty uniform, but there is wiggle room for expressive freedom ala harpsy. why not!?

the bonus to you is you get to vary touch/tone and can bring out voicing nuance. it's just another tool in your box.
*
I am not an expert on this matter, but i am quite versed on my opinion. :-)

[hardy_practice]

It breathes.

[j_menz]

The pulse should be kept as a pulse but need (and probably should) not be metronomic. You have considerably more freedom than is usually employed and should take advantage of it. Only (a certain school of) pianists treat it like precision clockwork - have a listen to some organists/orchestras etc.

On the repeats, do them if you can change the ornamentation. First time through should be fairly sparsely ornamented and second time quite elaborately. If you don't (or don't feel comfortable/know how to)  do it that way, then don't bother with the repeats.

As a general note on ornaments, be aware that ornamentation on a harpsichord generally needs to be heavier than on a piano. On a piano, too heavy an ornamentation tends to be lost in or overwhelm the longer note holding power and can sound very heavy. Adapt to the touch you are using.

[symphonicdance]

I think with modern piano, there will be more choices of delivery.  The player should also evaluate the taste of the expected audience.  It could already be very different between diploma exam, informal home recital and formal public recital.  Personally, I don't like doing his pieces very strict (however, I am neither a professional nor a teacher).

In addition to ornamentation, if there are different voices, the player can also decide which one to get sounded as principal the first time and perhaps another in the repeat, and even if without, to consider playing in different dynamics.

Dance has a lot of influence to Bach.  And it will be nice if you can find the book 'Dance and the Music of Bach'.

Angela Hewitt has a DVD on playing Bach.  It is pretty good.  There should be a lot of reference materials by Rosalyn Tureck, but difficult to find as I suspect they are separately kept by different universities and colleges.

[faulty_damper]

About the rubato on harpsichord, it's done due to physical limitations on the instrument.  It's very difficult to keep a steady pulse if the technique is not fully adapted to the plucking mechanism.  There's a lot of finger tension in harpsichord technique and often that tension is released in spurts.   The claw finger technique is a vital necessity but it's inherently tense.

Regarding repeats: AABB extends the ideas a second time around.  It's not the repeat of the musical ideas that matter but what the extension of the time allows: absorbing the mood of the piece.  AAB would be sufficient since the ideas are usually well learned by the end of the piece.

[j_menz]

About the rubato on harpsichord, it's done due to physical limitations on the instrument.  

Odd, then, that rubato was never a baroque practice, despite harpsichords being all the rage, and didn't come to be practiced until some time later, when people had all but universally switched to pianos.

AAB would be sufficient

It would certainly be unusual. I doubt in a good way.

[hardy_practice]

As a general note on ornaments, be aware that ornamentation on a harpsichord generally needs to be heavier than on a piano. On a piano, too heavy an ornamentation tends to be lost in or overwhelm the longer note holding power and can sound very heavy. Adapt to the touch you are using.

But there are no dynamics on a harpsichord.

[j_menz]

But there are no dynamics on a harpsichord.

I mean more notes, more elaborate flourishes. On a harpsichord they are crisp and clear, on a piano mostly not as much and need to be more restrained. Nothing to do with volume; sorry for the confusion.

[hardy_practice]

Without dynamics a harpsichordist needs to use time (and ornaments) for expression.

[j_menz]

Without dynamics a harpsichordist needs to use time (and ornaments) for expression.

Sorry. I actually though you had a point. Now it seems you are just interjecting statements of the bleeding obvious. Am I missing something?

[hardy_practice]

Am I missing something?

Yes, civility. 

[j_menz]

Yes, civility. 

Another statement of the bleeding obvious, I'm afraid.

[hardy_practice]

Another statement of the bleeding obvious, I'm afraid.

Some just have no shame.  That's obvious too.

[goldentone]

w harpsy there is little one can do to vary tone as it is uniform in sound from pluck to pluck.
generally harspy-ists tend to compress and elongate subdivisions of the beat or pulse in order to create variety in the 'tension' for expressive playing. to my understanding, they do not necessarily (or should not be) using 'rubato' as we commonly associate it today.

I've never confronted, myself, the harp's limited tonal variation.  You seem to be planning to apply the tone-varying methods of time compression and elongation to other heavenly instruments.  I've had similar thoughts.