Does room temperature and time of day the sound/key action of the piano?

[throwawaynotreally]

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[cabbynum]

When I open up my grand in the morning and start working, the room is normally cold (esp. now since it's winter), and the tone is really "sharp" and clangy. Key action is quite stiff. It's quite difficult to differentiate dynamics and painful to hear when I play forte, so practice becomes off-putting.

However, when the room is quite warm, and this seems to only happen at nightfall, the piano sounds warm and pleasant to hear, key action doesn't seem hard, and it's easier to pull of a nice "round" sound. Practice in the evenings is so much more productive and motivational.

So is there any correlation between these things and the sound/key action of a piano? Or is it just me?

I keep my piano room at a constant temperature and I usually sleep next to my piano as I am too tired to walk back to my room at night after a long practice session. I will wake up and immediately sit down and play a few scales and arpeggios then some chords and octaves. These do sound a bit harsh and louder than normal but that is because everything seems that way when you first wake up. If you have a numerical volume setting on your tv try and pay attention to the steady increase of number throughout the day. Im not sure if the room temperature would affect it that much unless its huge differences but it shouldnt be.

also why it feels heavier. YOu are more fatigued in the morning.



Hope taht helps
 

[iansinclair]

Keep your piano at a constant temperature!!!  And humidity, if you can manage it.  If you have to change temperatures for some reason, do it no more than say two or three degrees per day.

A fluctuating temperature is the quickest way to ruin a good piano -- short of dropping it -- that I can think of.

[outin]

Temperature does affect the tone, that's pretty obvious. The temperature and humidity are linked together. But does it change the action? Had a long discussion with my tech one day. We didn't quite reach a conclusion: Either it does or the tone change affects my playing and makes the action seem "stickier" at times.

These changes are inevitable where I live, it's cooler in the winter and warmer in the summer.

[quantum]

There are more issues with swift temperature and humidity changes, than a particular temperature or humidity value.  Yes, these parameters do affect sound - which I have personally witnessed playing in various venues.  However, if one strives to keep environmental conditions stable one has a better chance of achieving consistency in sound on a day-to-day basis.  It would open the possibility of having your piano tech regulate and voice your instrument to perform its best at a given stable temperature and humidity.  

[iansinclair]

Slow changes -- such as the winter to summer and back -- don't, in my experience, do that much damage to a piano.  Again, in my experience, a cold piano is going to feel heavier in the action than a warm one -- but maybe it's my fingers?!

However rapid changes, such as day to night "setbacks" which are advocated by some heating "experts" and "green" advocates, are harmful.  The piano will go out of tune much faster.  the pins in the pinblock may loosen (probably will).  If the  humidity changes too -- which it probably will -- the sounding board will crack.  Not mention cosmetic damage to veneers...

Each day to night setback does as much damage as a full year of outin's summer to winter.  So a full year in Europe or north America of day to night setbacks is more or  less equivalent to a century of seasonal changes.

[throwawaynotreally]

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[throwawaynotreally]

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[iansinclair]

How constant should I keep it? I do happen to live in Europe and at the moment, it can get quite chilly during the night (sometimes minus degrees celcius outside but a good bit warmer inside).
The piano is kept in the sitting room, which is vacant when everyone is asleep, so the electric radiator is turned off. From about 8p.m the radiator is on, and room temperature is generally about 16-18 degrees celcius.

Hmmm, maybe this will be a good argument to my parents for moving the piano in my room

In my humble (?) opinion, it would be best for the piano if it could be kept within a couple of degrees Celsius.  16 actually sounds a little chilly to play in, or it would be for my old hands, but 18 is actually quite reasonable; that's what mine is kept at.

[outin]

In my humble (?) opinion, it would be best for the piano if it could be kept within a couple of degrees Celsius.  16 actually sounds a little chilly to play in, or it would be for my old hands, but 18 is actually quite reasonable; that's what mine is kept at.

 I find the biggest issue is nothern Europe is the humidity. The indoor temperature does vary in my piano room because when it's really cold the radiators just aren't effectice enough (cannot be adjusted individually). But it's still within a few degrees and never below 22 because then I would freeze... But when the outdoor temperature goes below zero the humidity drops drastically inside and without a humidifier it goes below 20. And sometimes this can happen in one night
So the only way to prevent this is by an automatic humidifying equipment. Was expensive but well worth it. There are still changes and I can hear it, but at least the piano should stay alive through the winter...

In the summer the humidity naturally stays close to 40 without any help.

[j_menz]

I find the biggest issue is nothern Europe is the humidity.

Really. The humidity here can vary between 99% and 20% over the course of a few hours.

I'm also rather surprised how willing some of you are to sacrifice the future of the planet for the sake of a badly designed piano.

[ahinton]

Really. The humidity here can vary between 99% and 20% over the course of a few hours.

I'm also rather surprised how willing some of you are to sacrifice the future of the planet for the sake of a badly designed piano.

But surely the use of a humidifer or dehumidifier as appropriate and maintenance of as constant a temperature as possible in the studio where the piano is located is hardly likely to "sacrifice the future of the planet"?(!).

That said, good modern wrest planks are built to last longer and in better condition than much older ones and are less vulnerable to changes of humidity and temperature. I had to have an 1896 Steinway C almost completely refurbished some time ago (almost everything except the case) as its action was knackered; part of this work involved replacing the wrest plank, pins and strings and, once it had settled down after all the work had been completed, it was comparatively bomb-proof. I even had its sostenuto pedal mechanism changed to the contemporary kind, which was a tiresome though not especially difficult task (it was not possible to do legato pedalling with the original and a couple of redesigns of that mechanism had been implemented since the instrument was built).

Best,

Alistair

[outin]

Really. The humidity here can vary between 99% and 20% over the course of a few hours.

I'm also rather surprised how willing some of you are to sacrifice the future of the planet for the sake of a badly designed piano.

Well, I have been told that nothing made of wood likes humidity below 20% and at worst it's far below that on winter... which of course you know nothing about, since I don't think you have
below -15c temperatures around there?

[j_menz]

But surely the use of a humidifer or dehumidifier as appropriate and maintenance of as constant a temperature as possible in the studio where the piano is located is hardly likely to "sacrifice the future of the planet"?(!).

There's a surprising amount of water in a room full of 99% humid air, and a constantly running air conditioner uses quite a bit of power.

That said, good modern wrest planks are built to last longer and in better condition than much older ones and are less vulnerable to changes of humidity and temperature.

Something we owe to Japanese and Chinese manufacturers, it should be said.

[j_menz]

I don't think you have below -15c temperatures around there?

Not, I think, even in my freezer.

[ahinton]

There's a surprising amount of water in a room full of 99% humid air, and a constantly running air conditioner uses quite a bit of power.

Sure, but then so do lots of things without actually risking planetary destruction! As a matter of fact, even air source heat pumps use a lot and their very purpose is supposedly an environmentally friendly one! Anyone worried about that has only to install a solar PV system and make his/her own electricity.

Something we owe to Japanese and Chinese manufacturers, it should be said.

Not only to them; mine was made in UK by someone who has designed a machine for the purpose of making them (he was a student of the technician who did the work on my Steinway, as it happens).

Best,

Alistair

[chrisbutch]

I'm not a physicist, so this comment is made with some diffidence - but I suspect the most important factor here is the way the speed of sound is affected by temperature. It rises by about 0.6 metres/second for every degree Celsius rise. In an enclosed space, such as your piano room, the sound waves reaching your ear are not just those coming directly from the instrument, but also those reflected off wall, ceiling etc. Changes in the speed of those waves will minutely affect the the sequence of temporal intervals separating those direct and various indirect sources as they reach you. The brain interprets these changes, too small to be themselves directly perceptible, as a change in 'tone'.

[faulty_damper]

So is there any correlation between these things and the sound/key action of a piano? Or is it just me?

The colder, the more the strings contract, making the pitch higher.  When it warms up, the strings expand making the pitch lower.

The action is most affected by humidity.  As the wood swells, friction increases and the action slows down.

[Bob]

If you really wanted to know (disregarding the piano and keeping things constant), getting a thermometer and good hygrometer.  See what it's actually doing each day.  Then get a space heater and humidifier and see if you can recreate or amplify the effect. 

Or simpler... Keep everything closed up and the temp constant.  Then the tone/feel should stay constant too.