Shopping for grand piano

[ulrichsd]

Hello everyone!

I'm a life-long amateur pianist, moved into a new house and looking to add a grand piano that we'll have for a long time.  I have 2 daughters (2 and 4 years old) and they will be taking lessons eventually.

Room size:
Our living room is 12' x 24' so it can house a larger piano (but it seems like the baby grand 5'-5'10" size tend to be most available in my price range).

Budget:
$5-8,000 and would be looking to buy in the next year but looking to start the research.  I have a Yamaha S80 digital piano (weighted keys) so waiting a few years to increase the budget is a possibility.

Location:
I live in Cincinnati, OH and we have a couple of close-by piano stores:
SETA (used) pianos: https://setamusic.com/
BHA Piano Center (Dayton, OH): https://www.pianocenter.com/

My questions:
- Would you recommend a used piano at this price point ($5-8000)?  

Piano Center offers new Hallet Davis Boston 5'7" for about $8500 and Hailun 5'10" for $12,000.  By comparison a 1985 used 5'2" Baldwin M artist series is $6,850.

- Any recommendations on brands to target or avoid?

- How important is age - should I only look for used pianos that are less than 20 years old? less than 30 years old?

Any other info or advice would also be appreciated!
Thanks,
Scott

[awesom_o]

It's difficult to get a decent grand piano, new or used, with a $5-8k budget. If you can go up to around $10-12k, your options improve significantly.

A high-quality upright is better than a low-quality grand. Piano stores are usually looking to double their money on inventory to pay for the high overhead cost of doing business, so buying 2nd hand from a private seller can often get you a better deal, even though you'll have to pay for the cost of the move.

Try to find a trustworthy independent piano technician. They often can help you to find good deals on the private market. Don't be in a hurry to buy anything, and try out as many options as possible.

Good luck with your search.

[ulrichsd]

Awesom_o, thanks for the reply!  I know I'm new to all this, so sorry if I have some beginner buyer questions.  There's just so much info out there and a fair amount of contradictions.

1.  I do see some people suggest that an upright is a better option for lower budget (under $8k).  But as much as baby grands are maligned for being under 6', how is it recommended to instead get an upright that would less than 5'?

2. Would the majority of people on this forum prefer this 2002 Yamaha U1 48" upright for $5650 over this 1985 5'2" Baldwin M artist series for $6850 or this 1991 Yamaha 5'3" for $6950 or this brand new 5'3" Hallet Davis & Co for $7488 (assuming they are all in good playing condition)? I have to admit that I like aesthetics of a grand piano over an upright for such a big space but if an upright is going to be that much better than I would consider it...

I do feel lucky to have access to a couple of reputable stores selling a wide variety of used pianos with 10 year warranty, so I'm a little more comfortable there than going into the private market.

Thanks,
Scott

[awesom_o]

Once you get to 5'7 and above, a grand is the way to go. Only a few grands under 5'7 are very good. If you feel comfortable buying from a reputable store, go for it. Most people would take the Baldwin over the U1, although doing so might incur higher upkeep cost, considering the age (not that 30 years old is too long in the tooth for a quality, American-made instrument).

I can't say which is the better option without playing the pianos in person, but in general, I prefer American-made to Japanese-made pianos. Just remember, it is a buyer's market, so don't be afraid to ask for a discount on the price.

I reckon the Baldwin would be a good choice... it might benefit from some voicing and regulation in addition to a good tuning!

[ulrichsd]

Thanks again!!

I figure I'll have plenty of time to look around, just curious if I play a newer Chineese-made brand like a Hailun or Hallet Davis and think that it plays great and greatly prefer it over something like used a Baldwin or Yamaha, should I be worried that the sound or action might change, that it won't last or have other deficincies down the line?

Not too worried about resale as I plan to have it in my house for the next 30 years.  Depreciation on a new piano is more of an issue should something come up where we need to get rid of it sooner.

I do know a piano tuner/technician so I could ask for his help in maybe looking at private market if I go that way.

[indianajo]

There is a "restorer" (self titled) between Cincinnatti and Lexington, KY, that operates on craigslist.  He is way above my price range, so I have not reviewed any of his work.  My only close encounter was in buying a 1941 Steinway console he had rejected, that had obvious child appearance damage that would take a lot of work to repair.  
He operates off of craigslist.com, which is an all cash arrangement.  You view the product in person at the owner's premesis, buy it or not.  This might get you a little discount off stores that have to run real estate, pay employees, and account for every dollar taken in to the tax agencies.  Kentucky is a low cost low benefit state, so I'm sure this restorer's costs are lower than some in the piano business.
I've played uprights made in the 1910's and 20's, some of which were quite good mechanically (and the Baldwin and Steinway actually sounded good, although tuned lower than 440 per the standards at the time).  I have great respect for american maple and felt used in American built pianos built pre-globalization in the 1980's.  As far as the life of the woods used in oriental pianos, we'll know about the stability of the wood over long times in about fifty years.  Long discussions have been made of the plywood pinblocks used in some brands.  I will say, the solid maple pinblock in my 1941 Steinway holds tune much better than the five ply pin block in my 1982 Long Island made Sohmer piano.  However, I got a scratch and dent  discount on the Sohmer, which did not have any visible scratches or dents.  
 I find premium US made console pianos to be entirely fast enough for my needs, lacking only the middle pedal notes down only sustain of a grand.  there is not much repretoire for that mechanism that you don't hear performed on concert stage, so those pieces are very advanced IMHO.  I've never played a baby grand, but the retired organ builder I've been assisting recently says the studio pianos have longer bass strings than a baby grand.  I find the action of real grands to be too heavy for my bones and tendons, but native American appalachian ancerstry is so rare these days I doubt any European or African decendent would have a problem.  
So enjoy your search and shopping. Play a lot of pianos, even have a talented friend play the pianos if you can find one.  Be sure to check for speed of action, tone match of the three types of strings,  pleasant sound of the upper and lower octaves new users never play.  I auditioned my Sohmer with Lecuona Malaguena. I've since learned some repretoire that goes further up and down the keyboard, and am still pleased with the sound of both consoles.  

[ulrichsd]

Thanks Indianjo for the info, I'll take a look into the restorer as well!

I ordered Larry Fine's "The Piano Book", should come tomorrow.

Just for comparison (and assuming the pianos play comparatively), would most people prefer one of these bigger Japanese or Korean pianos over the Baldwin artist series 5'2" piano (mentioned above for $6850): 1987 6'1" Kawai GS-30 for $11,500 or a 1976 Yamaha C3 for $9950 or a 5'10" 6 month old Cunningham (designed by George Emerson, made by Hailun) for $8950.

Thanks,
Scott

[chopinlover01]

The yamaha C series is always a good choice.
Unless you're like some members of this forum who despise Yamahas...

[skinkone]

If you scour private listings, you may find a bargain. Pianos are hard to buy but even harder to sell, so find one you like, get it appraised professionally (I even did this online) and then make an offer. You may find that a private party - especially if they are moving or need to get rid of the instrument - are likely to be flexible on the price, especially in this economy.

[ulrichsd]

Thank you!  The more I read the more it scares me about a used instrument as who knows how it was maintained and treated...  I think I'm going to eventually go to a couple of piano stores in the area and try used vs new.  BHA Piano Center carries Hailun and Broddman.  Henderson music in the Cincinnati area carries Rittmuller.  All these Chineese pianos seem to get decent to good reviews so I can compare vs their used selection of Yamaha and Kawai, although these 20-30 year old used pianos seem to go for similar to the price of the above-mentioned new.  So we'll see if any speak to me and then go from there!

Thanks again!