What to ask a prospective teacher.

[Mycroft]

I'm a 44 year old beginner, (about 13 months under my belt), with the first 11 months under a teacher and I'm going to be looking for a new teacher after the holidays.  Of course among the first things I'll be mentioning are my goals, (which do not included becoming a concert pianist )

I plan on asking:

If they're comfortable teaching adults;
If they use a specific method or if they select original pieces appropriate to the student - I know, fat chance of finding one of those :-(
What style do they teach (only classical?)
Do they teach playing by ear, playing from fake books, accompanyment, sight reading?

Knowing what you know now, what other questions might be appropriate when I interview teachers?  Should I inquire about certifications?

I'm planning on starting with the local college to look for a teacher.  The first teacher had a sign in their yard.  He was ok, he just had some personal issues that interrupted sessions and wasn't current with new information.  I don't know anybody close to me who plays piano, so referrals are out - where else might I look?  I'm kind of skeptical about asking at music shops for fear that they may refer based on a commission. (Is this fear groundless?)

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[xRhapsodyx]

You seem to have some really good questions already. I think the best way to find a good teacher us by referral, is there any way you can meet other pianists in your area? You could try the local schools/colleges/universities and ask not only the teachers but the students who teaches them. Or if you could attend a piano concert or recital with a few people playing, then you could ask some of the kids or the parents who are watching who they are taught by. These are sometimes run by teachers too, so if you like the standard of playing that could be a good way to find a good teacher. If someone in a music shop refers you to a teacher that is affiliated with the shop then you could be wary if you like, but if they recommend somebody who has nothing to do with the shop then you'll probably be safe. I doubt anyone would give you the number of a rubbish teacher, most people in those shops work there because they're musicians too and they love music.

One thing though, be wary of teachers who charge too little. Generally, you get what you pay for. More experience, qualifications and a better standard of teaching costs more money, so if there is a teacher charging next to nothing and one charging more, you'd be well to go with the more expensive. My first teacher charged half what my current teacher charges, but my current one is ten times better and I'm doing really well.

You could also ask if they put pupils in for exams, and ask about the results. Lots of pupils reaching a good pass rate means a good teacher!

And some 'teachers' aren't really teachers at all, to be honest. In the UK you're qualified to teach (to any standard) if you have a Grade 5 qualification, which is quite low in the scale of Grades 1 - 8. Technically I could teach three instruments, but I'd do a damn bad job of it, lol. Make sure they're reputable and not just an enthusiastic amateur looking to make a bit of money and get some experience.

Good luck with it!

[Mycroft]

Great tips xRhapsodyx, thanks!  I hadn't thought about exams.  While I don't plan on ever taking any exams, since I'm not going to be a concert pianist or teacher, it may (or it may not for that matter) be an item for consideration if the prospective teacher does prepare students for exams.

Your post also reminded me about recitals.  I think they're useful and my first teacher didn't do them.  So I'm going to add that question to my list.  That is, does the teacher promote recitals, and if so, how often and where.

[xRhapsodyx]

You're most welcome. I found mine through word of mouth, she taught a few of my friends and my neighbours, she has a two year waiting list but I managed to squeeze in at the top because I knew some of her pupils and already had experience with violin and had taken Grade 4 piano. I'm so lucky to have found a decent teacher, you advance so much quicker than you thought you could!

[pianoannie]

I'm a 44 year old beginner, (about 13 months under my belt), with the first 11 months under a teacher and I'm going to be looking for a new teacher after the holidays.  Of course among the first things I'll be mentioning are my goals, (which do not included becoming a concert pianist )

I'm curious what your goals are.  But I wouldn't necessarily say that you should start out by telling a prospective teacher what your goals are (maybe it's the skeptic in me!)
My suggestion is to begin by asking fairly open-ended questions about the teacher him/herself (ie what styles do you prefer to teach?) rather than yes/no questions (ie do you teach jazz or fake books?).
Don't start out by telling the teacher what it is you want in a teacher; his/her answers to your questions may then be somewhat altered to line up with what you've already revealed.

Of course, a totally ethical teacher is going to be totally honest with you.  But you don't want a teacher who exaggerates her experience in teaching jazz (or fakebooks, or whatever it is you're looking for) just to get you enrolled.  Find out what this teacher excels in, what his attitudes are about various styles, what his policies are, etc, and see if that lines up with what you're looking for.

I'd ask how many adult students they currently teach, how many they've had over the last 5 years, questions about what these adults were able to accomplish during their time with this teacher, perhaps ask if any current or past adult students would serve as a reference that you could phone.

I would certainly ask about training and experience, continuing education, memberships in professional organizations.  There's not a single "right" answer to these kinds of questions, but you don't want someone with bare minimum education and experience.

Best wishes to you in your search.  Please keep us posted!

[Mycroft]

Excellent tips Annie.  Especially the open ended question one.  Thank you!

My goals on the classical side are to eventually play up to the level of the Moonlight and perhaps some Debussey, but definitely not the level of most Rach or Liszt.  I'd love to be able to improvise fully from a fake book or hopefully by ear and I want to be able to sight read most popular music books.

The wife of one of my clients plays piano.  I was over at her house the other day and she mentioned wanting to stop by the music store and pick up a Christmas book.  I extolled the virtues of the Readers Digest collection that I learned Silent Night from.  After I played the piece for her, she picked out one of her thin books that had an arrangement of Silent Night in it, sat down and proceeded to sight read and improvise the heck out of that song.  She made what I thought was a fairly full arrangement that I had learned sound like twinkle twinkle little star!     That's what I want to be able to do!

[bizgirl]

The wife of one of my clients plays piano. I was over at her house the other day and she mentioned wanting to stop by the music store and pick up a Christmas book. I extolled the virtues of the Readers Digest collection that I learned Silent Night from. After I played the piece for her, she picked out one of her thin books that had an arrangement of Silent Night in it, sat down and proceeded to sight read and improvise the heck out of that song. She made what I thought was a fairly full arrangement that I had learned sound like twinkle twinkle little star! That's what I want to be able to do!

Find out who her teacher is!

[Mycroft]

She hasn't had a teacher in decades.

[pianoannie]

, she picked out one of her thin books that had an arrangement of Silent Night in it, sat down and proceeded to sight read and improvise the heck out of that song.  She made what I thought was a fairly full arrangement that I had learned sound like twinkle twinkle little star!     That's what I want to be able to do!

Mycroft, for me, improvising as you described is far easier than playing classical music note for note (although I do plenty of that too).  My years of playing as a church pianist have definitely developed my improvising skills. (have you ever noticed that a hymnal is written in standard 4 parts, SATB, but the pianist will be playing lots of extra stuff).
So, if you happen to find a teacher who is also a church pianist, s/he can probably help you a lot with the improv stuff.  (not to say other teachers couldn't).

Until you find a teacher, begin by learning (or reviewing, if you already know them) all 12 major chords, and all 12 minor chords, each in all 3 inversions (root, 1st, 2nd).  Just ask if you're not familiar with those terms, or anything else I mention.
After that, learn all 24 chords of the previous chords as seventh chords (adds a minor 7th interval to the root, 3rd, and 5th intervals), in all 4 of their inversions.
Then learn how to make all 24 a bit more "colorful" by adding 2nd intervals, or 4th, or 6th.  Learn how to play all the chords in various patterns ie Alberti bass, broken chords, bass octaves jumping up to the chord, etc.

If you can get a handle on some of this stuff, it will be a great head start for when you find a teacher.

[Mycroft]

Thanks pianoannie, good advice.  In fact I just received the Sudnow course and the first thing he has you do is learn all twelve major scales, (with emphasis on learning the 3rd, 5th, etc. for each), and the major, dominant, and minor 7th chords for them.  I just finished listening to the first two CDs and so much of what he said reminded me of Bernhard that I think it's going to be an effective course.

You're right that improvising and playing classically are two completely different skills.  It's easy to see why so many classically trained pianists couldn't play a decent Happy Birthday without sheet music and it's also easy to see how someone could learn to play extremely well by ear and not be able to read a note of sheet music. 

That's why I want to learn both sides.  If I want to play a standard, I don't want to have to find sheet music for it and then slave over the arrangement for a couple of days before I can play it.  Likewise, a "fake book" version of Fur Elise is just wrong on so many levels.   Also, it's nice to be able to play a real favorite like "Christmas Time is Here" in the original arrangement rather than fake it.

[pianoannie]

Likewise, a "fake book" version of Fur Elise is just wrong on so many levels.   Also, it's nice to be able to play a real favorite like "Christmas Time is Here" in the original arrangement rather than fake it.

Fakebook Fur Elise!!!  LOL!  I about spewed my coffee on that one!   

I love Christmas Time is Here and just about anything else by Vince Guiraldi.   Are you able to play the full version yet?

[Mycroft]

"I about spewed my coffee on that one!"

Yeah, pretty scary, but they're out there.

"Are you able to play the full version yet?"

I can play the full version that's in the Ultimate Christmas Collection (https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0793519853), except for the solo at the end.  I don't know how different it is from the one in Geraldi's transcriptions, (https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/063403099X), but I think it's very close.  The left hand has to stretch a 10th and even a bit more, (F down to Db an octave below).

[quasimodo]

I read somewhere that a good test for a new teacher, asides every questions, is to have him/her play something, sort of an audition  .

To be honest, I thnik it's an awkward thing to do, and I'm not quite sure it's that pertinent: some sports coaches are weak athletes but they're efficient as coaches. I guess the same goes for music teachers...

[m1469]

I read somewhere that a good test for a new teacher, asides every questions, is to have him/her play something, sort of an audition .

To be honest, I thnik it's an awkward thing to do, and I'm not quite sure it's that pertinent: some sports coaches are weak athletes but they're efficient as coaches. I guess the same goes for music teachers...

I think it is pertinent actually.  The ideal would be for a coach or a teacher to express both attributes- teaching efficiency and ability to demonstrate on the instrument or within the context of what is being taught.

Interestingly, I have rarely had this experience of knowing someone and working with someone who was truly accomplished at both.  I have worked with fabulous performers, but they were not great teachers.  I have worked with great teachers who were not considered fabulous performers.  Come to think of it, I have learned a lot about piano from my basketball coaches and from some of my voice teachers who were not setting out to teach me about the piano at all.

*thinks to self* (maybe teaching is not about the things but more the persons...)

I suppose in a situation where one is looking for a teacher  it really depends on what exactly it is that is needed by the student.  We need different teachers at different times and not just one teacher can fulfill all of the needs of the student.  Also, sometimes what is learned from a teacher can actually have less to do with what or how the teacher is teaching and more to do with what or how the student is learning.  It also depends on how ready the student may be to learn what that particular teacher has to offer.

Every teacher/student relationship will be different and bring forth different qualities, all of which may or may not be useful (but even the less useful ones can be useful if you go about it  the right way).   

The ideal situation is one where both the teacher and student will learn a great deal from eachother, where they are both being pushed to grow in thier own ways (except for one is getting paid monetarily, and one is not   ).

It has been my experience where I will find a teacher that I have a huge connection with and feel very inspired to learn from.  I have also had teachers that I do not feel this huge connection with, but learning still takes place, sometimes even more so.

Anyway, there is not a special formula and criteria exactly, you will just know the right teacher when s/he is found (if you are paying attention  ).

m1469