Damn, I quit...

[cbreemer]

Every now and then I get this feeling. Maybe some of you recognize it. You seem to spend your whole life trying to hone your piano skills, there is progress but not nearly fast enough, and you're still nowhere near the level of an arbitrary conservatory graduate. Then on YT you come across
a 13-year old girl dashing off Kapustin Concert etudes as if it were a mere little jog in the park. From memory, up tempo, virtually without any slip, and with a big smile on her face. what is the world coming to !? And why am I even trying ?
Ah, just had to get this off my chest. The vid in question is

[thalbergmad]

I have come across thousands of people who have skills greater than mine, but once i get over the initial envy, i rejoice and use it as inspiration.

I can understand how you feel though.

Thal

[cbreemer]

I'm not disheartened by the many grown-ups who are so much better than I. That usually *is* an inspiration (after getting over the gripes, that is). All the youngsters rattling off Liszt as from 6 years of age don't do anything for me at all. But a 13-year old kid  playing Kapustin like this, that just breaks my heart...

On the other hand, what will be the challenge in her piano life, when she already can do anything at this age ? Perhaps one should not be so envious of such outlandish talent.

[ted]

I am a bit lucky in that way, I cannot recall being envious of anybody or anything. I have other failings but envy is not one of them. It drives other people to distraction sometimes. Gestures are made to create impressions in me, to boast, or instill a feeling of envy or restlessness and I just do not perceive them at all, never mind react to them. Competition virtually doesn't exist for me; it's why I never won much despite being a pretty strong tennis player.

The story I usually trot out when this sentiment is broached on piano forums, and it occurs surprisingly often, goes as follows. Years ago I had a close friend, alas long dead now, who was highly intelligent and passionately fond of music. I used to improvise for him and one day he produced the speculation that in the future, mental perception, brain states, abilities, might be transferred from one person to another. He then asserted that in that case he wouldn't even bother with a nonentity of modest talent like me but would tap into the brain states of famous and more talented players.

But then he realised the problem. How did he know that my internal musical quale, wasn't actually taking me to finer mental states than those perceived by the better pianists ? Put crudely, was the natural assumption that greater ability causes greater enlightenment, greater internal joy, really correct ? Therein lies the fallacy of envy, judging oneself by linear comparisons, external facts and what other people think, instead of internal ones and what one really feels inside.  

[cbreemer]

It is not so much envy that I feel, I don't think these super young mega talents are to be envied.
But I can't help feeling a sense of futility over taking so many years to achieve so little, where
this girl has probably advanced more in 3 years than I have in 3 decades. It must be nice to be impervious to such feelings...

[cwjalex]

if you knew how much she practiced you might wonder why she isn't even better

[j_menz]

Enjoy the ride and don't sweat the other travellers.

[gyzzzmo]

There are always people who are better at something, can do stuff earlier, nicer and faster.

So you can either jump off a high building, or enjoy the thing you're doing and try to make the best of it, in combination with the other things you find important.

[cwjalex]

also keep in mind that the majority of the pianists on youtube are much better than the average pianist.  the people you are seeing are the only ones who are confident enough to display their playing for others to see.  what you aren't seeing are the thousands of struggling pianists who are not so skilled and most likely much worse than yourself.

[indianajo]

I like playing the pieces I am learning.  My piano sounds sooo much better than the ****y MP4 sound of my computer through headphones - even with army damaged ears.  Most stuff on you-tube, was recorded with a cell phone, that makes the sound even worse.  I don't listen much to you-tube for that reason.  So playing the pieces live is highly worth it, IMHO. 
I also play things quite a bit differently than the standard, usually.  There are 999999 versions of Moonlight Sonata mvt 3, but NONE of them sound like mine.  That doesn't make me "better" when it comes to grades in contests or conservatory entrance, but I like my way better.
Art is for one's own enjoyment first, not a competition to see who is better.  I hated everything about the "modern art" movement starting about 1950, but that doesn't mean they didn't get respect or some of them made a lot of money.  Same with "modern" 12 tone or atonal music also starting about 1950, I though those people were idiots that couldn't get a song on the radio top 40 .  My opinion is not shared by the academics that run schools or contests.  I don't care, and I don't imagine you do either.
I heard a CD of a Polish guy playing the same piece I have been working on for 30 years, and he does some of it much better than I.  Some of it, I do differently, and I like my way better.  It is my art, not his, that happens right in my living room after dinner. 
Enjoy your own art. If you don't enjoy piano, take up another art that you do enjoy.  Maybe someone will share your opinion, but if not, you made some art your own self. 

[ted]

Art is for one's own enjoyment first, not a competition to see who is better. 
Enjoy your own art.

Exactly. In art, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

[cwjalex]

heh, at first i thought indianajo was responding in the wrong thread.

[quantum]

I've always found musicians with greater skill than me intriguing, regardless of their age.  Never once have I felt discouragement from mesmerizing performances, in fact I search them out to learn from them so I may grow my own skill set.  Part of the joy of music is that it is not easy and there are considerable challenges to overcome, but when one does "get it" the reward is much deserved. 

A good question to ask oneself: if one actually did achieve that ideal skill, then what would one do?

[cbreemer]

Thanks all for the wise insights. It's true, when at that age you can already climb every mountain as if it were a molehill, what could still be adventurous and challenging ? And also true, for everyone better than me there are at least 100 far worse

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I can understand your feelings, having had a couple of similar experiences. Sitting in masterclasses, plodding my way inexpertly through some Scarlatti and hacking at some Alkan that was probably past my capabilities, after which someone comes up and sails through Scharwenka 4 like it was nothing. Or the kid who played Gaspard with the level of nonchalance that suggested taking a dog for a walk, then indicated he wasn't really that interested in the piano and was probably going into medicine.. Very dispiriting initially.

I had a think about it, and decided it was paradoxical to be dispirited by such performances, which while good, are not on the transcendental level of the great performances which we rightly venerate and are testament to what the human spirit is capable of. If there is to be competition in art, really it should be against yourself, to produce the best you can.

[cbreemer]

I'm glad at least some people understand my point. It hits home particularly when you've struggled with some fiendish piece for a long time without getting the hang of it, and you see a kid breezing through it with no effort at all. That must be a hefty dose of talent on top of countless practicing hours. Stands to reason that someone with 10 times my talent and ten times more practice hours will play 100 times better. I must make this into an incentive to pick up that Kapustin Toccatina again

[diomedes]

if you knew how much she practiced you might wonder why she isn't even better

Nailed it.

I also have deep appreciation of how the first fact they declare (verbally in a video??..... um) is the age. Certainly that's more important than the composer or piece in question. Of course.

Everyone is challenged by the  accomplishment of others, but consider context and also factor in what you have put into it over time to really judge yourself fairly.

I don't recall what videos recently made me feel the urge to question the purpose of the pursuit, I'm sure there's one or two in the recent past that did so late at night. On one occasion I remember a recording or Rene Duchable of the Saint Saens toccata from the 5th concerto etude and that shook me up a little.

But recently I found things like that inspire me more. Watching that video recently of Evyeny Kissin playing Rachmaninov 2nd concerto recently was close to life changing, but in a good way.

We probably all know how you feel, but don't go judging yourself by people who proclaim their accomplishments as measured by their age. Especially when it's the first thing out of their mouth.

[chopinlover01]

also keep in mind that the majority of the pianists on youtube are much better than the average pianist. 

I just about died laughing...

[cwjalex]

I just about died laughing...

what's so funny?  you disagree with that statement?

[chopinlover01]

The number of good pianists on youtube, while somewhat impressive, pales in comparison to the countless awful pianists there are, though the numbers are lower in the classical genre.
They learn one piece (often with awful technique), record it with their phone and upload it to YT.

[cwjalex]

The number of good pianists on youtube, while somewhat impressive, pales in comparison to the countless awful pianists there are, though the numbers are lower in the classical genre.
They learn one piece (often with awful technique), record it with their phone and upload it to YT.

you have to remember there are countless number of players in real life that are struggling to even play something with both hands.  i just had a piano recital recently and out of the 50 students i would say maybe 5-6 were advanced enough to play something like bach's inventions.  of course there are a lot of mediocre pianists on youtube but it does not compare to the number of pianists in real life who are struggling to play basic pieces.

if you took every single person who plays the piano in the world and picked one out of random and compared that person to a randomly picked person on youtube, 95% of the time the person on youtube would be better and most of the time convincingly so.    

[stevensk]

-So you havent internalized the spinal reflex defense mechanism to view all young, supertalanted viritous female pianists as shallow, boring mechanical robots?
-If you do, your life will be easier

[cbreemer]

-So you havent internalized the spinal reflex defense mechanism to view all young, supertalanted viritous female pianists as shallow, boring mechanical robots?

I don't know what viritous is, and it did not matter to me she's female. For sure, most of these youngsters play like trained monkeys. Let me just say I wish I'd have a quarter of her apparently effortless facility. At that
age I could barely master the dead easiest pieces of Bach or Chopin. On the other hand, had I had
this kind of talent I might well be bored to death by now.

[quantum]

Came across an article that may be pertinent to this discussion:
https://www.fotocommunity.com/info/Helsinki_Bus_Station_Theory

[cbreemer]

Wow, some story! I did not read it all but the minim Stay On The Bus seems a good one to remember.

[indianajo]

I enjoyed the "helsinki bus station" story and metaphore. I read it all.
I'm close enough to see the end of the line, not nearly there yet, but i have  a goal in mind.  In competitions I'll never win anything.  But if anybody ever hears anything they do, they will say "That was really different", or maybe "that was really strange".  Which is all the difference I need.  The only win I want, is for someone, maybe only one, to push the play button again. 

[ted]

Came across an article that may be pertinent to this discussion:

An entertaing analogy. I missed all the buses decades ago, and have wandered about the musical landscape on foot, or in contraptions I have built myself.