Chopin Waltz op.64 n°2

[stefo78]

Hi,

This time there won't be bad clicking sounds, and I didn't use my smartphone. So the sound should not be so horrible.

Please feel free to do any comments on my playing. I've heard many different kinds of interpretation and would appreciate any feedback on mine.

Thanks
Stefo

[stefo78]

[stefo78]

Oops, problem with the preview, and with the tags...

This one should work.

&feature=youtu.be

[chopinlover01]

You're quite bangy in many important sections.. And the piu mosso is lacking much elegance. The Db major section wasn't too bad though.
What Chopin have you played in the past, dance forms in particular?

[chopincat]

A very good effort! A few things I would work on:
-I feel like you sometimes rush the repeated rhythmic pattern in the A section, the one that first appears in measure 4. You have to make sure it sounds like three distinct sounds instead of one clump.
-The B section could be a lot more fluid. I played this piece myself a few years ago, and I remember not being able to get the B section really up to tempo until I really relaxed my right arm. The more relaxed and fluid you are, the easier it will be to speed up.
-I think in general you could pay a bit more attention to phrasing. Like chopinlover said, it sounds a bit bangy at times. But that will come more easily with time and once you know the notes better.

[stefo78]

Thanks for the comments.

- I worked with different waltzes with Chopin and posted some other recordings here (a Am waltz ant the minut waltz long ago, and more recently the Op69 n2). I'm a bit aware of the "bangy" playing, I think, but I'm far away to understand deeply how I could improve that.

- "Once you know the notes better" : I'm not aware of having to know "more" the notes, in my mind I would say - did you mean "muscularly" ? I'm not sure at this time that repetition will improve my "knowing" or my phrasing. In fact I would like to know more precisely how to work.

- Relaxation is really of my concern. Each time speed rises, I'm unable to relax myself. And didn't find the solution to improve that. The worst example is for Fantaisie Impromptu, playing right hand alone : I feel tired before the end of the first part. Do I need time and repetition to improve that, or do I miss something working as I work now ?

[chopinlover01]

Knowing the notes better implies (at least what I think Chopincat was saying, correct me if I'm wrong) having the entire piece under your fingers, able to play through the entire piece with little to no mistakes in timing or notes.
While I wouldn't recommend dropping this piece, I think it'd be beneficial to your playing to play some Chopin mazurkas. Go ahead and get the complete set in whatever edition is sturdiest (or cheapest!), then read through them all. They're quite beautiful pieces of music, definitely worth studying.
Try playing this piece as softly as possible, making sure the nail joint (second joint on any finger after the knuckle) doesn't collapse; this will give you a much easier time playing softly. This will help you project volume whilst still maintaining tone; playing forte does not mean banging (which you weren't always doing, but some sections definitely were quite bangy).
Let the phrases breathe, it will sound much more musical.
Also, it's nothing personal. I love the waltz, and you play it fairly well; your D flat major section is one of my favorite renditions of it ever!

[chopincat]

Knowing the notes better implies (at least what I think Chopincat was saying, correct me if I'm wrong) having the entire piece under your fingers, able to play through the entire piece with little to no mistakes in timing or notes.

That's exactly what I meant. Obviously you know the piece, but it seems like you are still making a few mistakes with timing and notes and aren't totally comfortable in every section. All of those things will improve with practice and time - muscle memory is an amazing thing.

- Relaxation is really of my concern. Each time speed rises, I'm unable to relax myself. And didn't find the solution to improve that. The worst example is for Fantaisie Impromptu, playing right hand alone : I feel tired before the end of the first part. Do I need time and repetition to improve that, or do I miss something working as I work now ?

I can relate - I naturally hold a lot of tension in my shoulders, and it took a lot of practice and work with my teacher to learn how to deal with that. Being more relaxed when you play in general may be more of a long-term goal. But in this piece, there are definitely a few things you can do to overcome the tension in the B section. I remember that I used to tense up a lot in this section because I would stretch my right hand in order to reach all the notes. But stretching your hand out only makes your hand tense and restricts mobility. Eventually I figured out that it was much easier to keep my hand closed/relaxed when playing this section, and instead use my arm and wrist to move over the notes. That way my fingers were more relaxed and could move a lot more easily. That made it a lot easier to speed up! You should practice the right hand alone like this until it feels smooth and free. It won't be tiring if you are truly playing it in a relaxed way because you won't be straining your fingers. Hope that helps!

[chopinlover01]

That's exactly what I meant. Obviously you know the piece, but it seems like you are still making a few mistakes with timing and notes and aren't totally comfortable in every section. All of those things will improve with practice and time - muscle memory is an amazing thing.

I can relate - I naturally hold a lot of tension in my shoulders, and it took a lot of practice and work with my teacher to learn how to deal with that. Being more relaxed when you play in general may be more of a long-term goal. But in this piece, there are definitely a few things you can do to overcome the tension in the B section. I remember that I used to tense up a lot in this section because I would stretch my right hand in order to reach all the notes. But stretching your hand out only makes your hand tense and restricts mobility. Eventually I figured out that it was much easier to keep my hand closed/relaxed when playing this section, and instead use my arm and wrist to move over the notes. That way my fingers were more relaxed and could move a lot more easily. That made it a lot easier to speed up! You should practice the right hand alone like this until it feels smooth and free. It won't be tiring if you are truly playing it in a relaxed way because you won't be straining your fingers. Hope that helps!

Necro'ing an old thread, I know, shoot me, but I thought I'd share a little anecdote. A friend of mine also used to hold a lot of tension naturally in his shoulders and biceps, as a result of a muscle injury. Me and another friend had to get him to get a massagist to massage his shoulders while he was playing (for two weeks worth of practice sessions), so that he knew how to play without tension. Sure enough, $700 later and he was playing with no tension or stress in his shoulders!
Though, I was told that there was stress on his mind due to the fee 

[stefo78]

Is there a problem "Necro'ing old threads" ? I hope not - I'm not always on this forum and some topics need time to be considered and answered.

After listening to mazurkas several times I still did not find one I like really, or sufficiently to be willing to learn it. But I continue listening to them - maybe I'll find.

For a Chopin piece I was really far more interested in the nocturne op9 n1, do you think I can manage this one ?

[chopinlover01]

The B flat minor nocturne is a step up from the waltz in difficulty, but once you can really play this one well, you should be able to handle it.
The mazurkas are really beautiful pieces. In fact, if you wish to tackle 9/1 B flat minor nocturne, try the Op 17/4 mazurka in a minor. It has the very fast runs against standard accompaniment that's found so often in Chopin.