Carpal Tunnel

[cybele]

How does one treat it? Are surgical interventions successful for pianists?

[pianoplayer002]

I'm not a doctor, and I don't think many other people here are either, so in the end you should ask a qualified professional about these things.

I would however recommend you checking if you are playing with tension or stiffness, and retraining yourself to play without tension/stiffness and see if it relieves the symptoms.

[bonesquirrel]

Although I do not have CTS, I do have Post-Traumatic Arthritis in my right wrist (very hideous boxing injury).

I can't really give you much help, as I am not trained in medicine. But what works for me is heat cream (Goanna or Deep Heat) rubbed directly onto the wrist, I use it before, after, and sometimes during my piano practice, it really helps relieve the stiffness and pain temporarily. Ice gel may also be an option, I do have some, however I rarely use it, unless the pain is stopping me sleeping. Besides that, there is of course the general, over the counter anti inflammatory medication, but I have found very little relief with it. I had limited success with Codeine that I was prescribed at one point, but the heat cream really done it for me, it's not a cure, but it should help ease it.

Hope I helped.

[outin]

I have tight carpal tunnels and I suffered rather severe nerve symptoms at one point. I am not going to let anyone near my wrists with a knife. But I got rid of the symptoms by physiotherapeutical exercises, adjusting my playing habits and probably most importantly, I started to restrict my computer use.

[expressman70]

look around youtube, as silly as it seems there are ton of valuable info there. I found some good things for myself. Search Carpal tunel release videos. Be healed in Jesus name.

[scottrhodes]

The Taubman Techniques Volume 1 - 10 DVD set –––– https://www.taubman-tapes.com/Home.html

AND

https://www.golandskyinstitute.org/


Here you will discover how to play correctly. Poor Technique = Carpal Tunnel

[bonesquirrel]

Poor Technique = Carpal Tunnel

Um..... Don't you mean "poor technique = aggravating your carpal tunnel"? At least in this instance, he already has CTS.

[stoat_king]

The Taubman Techniques Volume 1 - 10 DVD set –––– https://www.taubman-tapes.com/Home.html
AND
https://www.golandskyinstitute.org/
Here you will discover how to play correctly. Poor Technique = Carpal Tunnel

I don't think you go far enough.
Not using Taubman techniques = short painful life followed by an eternity IN HELL.

[scottrhodes]

stoat_king is correct.

I am suffering from major arm injuries. I know that the Taubman Technique is THE WAY to PLAY.

I shed a tear (well actually a flood) to think that I have been 29 years playing incorrectly.

At this point i am just praying that my arms (and yours) heal so that we can all play.

[anamnesis]

stoat_king is correct.

I am suffering from major arm injuries. I know that the Taubman Technique is THE WAY to PLAY.

I shed a tear (well actually a flood) to think that I have been 29 years playing incorrectly.

At this point i am just praying that my arms (and yours) heal so that we can all play.

It is not THE way to play, it is a way to play.  There are other approaches that use a healthy, holistic technique that are also worth learning from as well.

It may useful for retraining some injured pianists, but the method's limited technical vocabulary is  still inadequate  by itself when trying to teach someone how to learn the virtuosic repertoire such as as the Chopin etudes. 

[cometear]

The Taubman Approach is, in my opinion, the only organized and reliable way for an injured pianist to be offered a full and guaranteed recovery, providing the pianist does what is required and is patient. As an above poster said, check out the Golandsky Institute which is the official head of the approach.

[justharmony]

I sympathize with anyone struggling with tendonitis or carpal tunnel... or really any other issue that interferes with their playing as their heart desires or needs.  I dealt with such issues, myself, and it's not only physically painful, but emotionally as well.  It's a very scary thing to face as a pianist, and I understand very very well the terror that can be involved in facing surgical solutions.

As others have said, I cannot offer diagnoses or prognoses.  I cannot say why any particular person is struck by CTS (though I CAN say that it does NOT always have to to with technique). The answers as to why it happens and how to best address it vary widely with individual.  It might involve technique, sure, but could also involve other repetitive motion issues (like typing all day, for instance), or underlying inflammatory, auto-immune, or other disorders...  There can be many contributing factors, and depending on those factors and the severity of the nerve compression (not to mention individual needs and tolerances), solutions vary.

My experience is all I have to offer.  No one could ever tell me how long was "too long" to wait to release the nerves surgically... though in retrospect, I nearly waited too long.  I tried just about anything to avoid surgery, but, in the end, had surgery on both wrists anyhow.  I was lucky.  My nerves recovered from long-term compression.  They might not have. 

I don't say that to scare anyone, but to bring awareness to the fact that sometimes NOT pursuing a particular treatment might be just as injurious (and, increasingly more probable to cause permanent injury) as facing the possibility of a negative outcome of that treatment.  At some point, avoiding what you most fear may in fact cause what you most fear.

Again, I can't say.  Have you done nerve studies and all that?  Are you working closely with a neurologist and/or other medical professionals you trust?  What are they saying?

No one answer applies to everyone.  Hang in there in your pursuit of the answer for you.

JH

[faryas60]

As a piano teacher I always take care about my students.
I've recovered more than 10 students who came from another teacher with painful wrists.
At the beginning I start with two weeks rest without playing (even one KEY!). Then I start to teach them right technique. Playing with fingers (without the arm support ) is the main reason.
Please note that you may need more than 2 week rest... you should first totally reduce the pain with rest and then you can start your job with TUBMAN videos..
But if you have pain again after 1 month rest,,, you should see a physician ...

[scottrhodes]

As justharmony mentioned, working at a computer can aggravate carpal tunnel etc....

I personally use this USB footpedal as a replacement for all mouse clicks:
https://www.fentek-ind.com/FootPedal.htm#afs3usb

I own the triple pedal version programmed for: (click, program toggle, control-click)

I have used several brands of foot pedals, and this company has the best build quality and a very ergonomic design.

My arms/wrists/hands are beginning to feel better. I have been three months without even touching the piano. Hopefully within a month or so I will be able to begin retraining following the Taubman Technique (which is to really say THE WAY TO PLAY). Some of my poor technique included wrist twisting, finger stretching, isolated finger technique, zero arm support, etc.... I am speaking from personal experience when I say, "Practicing Chopin's Winter Wind Etude with poor technique is a recipe for PAINFUL retirement."

[scottrhodes]

There are actually a number of things that i have been doing that are all contributing to the healing of my arms/wrists/hands.

I have a music stand up against a wall. On the music stand I have a firm pillow positioned so that I can lean into the pillow with my fist while keeping my elbow/arm/wrist/fist all in a straight line alignment. There are also subtle ways that I move my fist into the pillow with the tips of my middle knuckles...; anyway I do this with both arms many times a day and it feels really good, healing and beneficial for my condition.
(A friend of mine mentioned that he healed his carpal tunnel by doing pushups, and that is what lead me to pushing my fist into a pillow).

I also use this trigger point roller throughout the day.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006GUC9KC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It feels very good when I run both of my forearms over this on the floor. I use a back and forth motion combined with a forearm rotation. Forearm Rotation is something that was missing from my piano technique. I use the 26 inch version - this is long enough to do both arms simultaneously. It also feels really good to run your spine across this thing.

I also use a wooden Gua Sha Scraping Tool that I comb up my arm. Wow this feels great!

I also use the Bongers Massage tool on my arms:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HG1A4Y8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I am also ingesting lots of healthy supportive things such as: Tumeric, Wobenzym, SerraEnzyme, Bio-Fibrin, Monolaurin, Pure MSM, Vitamineral Green, Tonic Alchemy, 8 immortals, Eucommia Bark, Super Pill #2, Isagenix Product B, Stress B-Complex Caps, Goji Berries, KALE (I eat lots of kale).

I walk every day, and swinging my arms feels really good.

HOT/COLD therapy has helped. Get the arms real hot in the shower and then get them real cold. I go back and forth hot/cold/hot/cold – this will get fluids pumping through your arms to help move out toxins etc....

Rebounding on a trampoline feels really good on the arms – just let the arms completely relax as you bounce up and down.

I place my forearms outstretched on the grass outside or carpeted floor (palms relaxed). Then begin moving forward and back so that the skin of the arm is sticking to the ground, but the arm itself is slipping/sliding beneath the skin – this creates a traction motion that feels really good. I even add a little forearm rotation to this traction move.

I had several treatments with an ART therapist, and I found this therapy helpful. I have been able to self treat myself using some of the movements that the therapist showed me.
www.activerelease.com

I also use my elbows to dig into various pressure points that offer relief.

I didn't mean to write the sequel to War And Peace, and I am no doctor, but I felt compelled to share some of what is helping my arms to heal.

P.S. Since I haven't been able to play for three months I have been focusing on ear training exercises using EarMaster Pro Software.

[outin]

I personally use this USB footpedal as a replacement for all mouse clicks:
https://www.fentek-ind.com/FootPedal.htm#afs3usb

Thanks, this might be exactly what I need! Never realized that such a thing exists, but for me the mouse clicking is the worst. Would be good practice for my pedal foot as well

Now I just need to figure out how to get one, the sellers I found don't ship here...

[drazh]

hi
you should do EMG and NCV and after that your surgeon can decide whether surgery is needed

[bronnestam]

Thanks, this might be exactly what I need! Never realized that such a thing exists, but for me the mouse clicking is the worst. Would be good practice for my pedal foot as well

Now I just need to figure out how to get one, the sellers I found don't ship here...

You can also try using a laptop with a scratchpad ...
Unfortunately I'm chained to my computer in my profession as a translator, and I have got these burning sensations in my finger joints, which is not fun. Obviously operating the computer mouse makes it all worse, but I have found that the usage of the scratchpad helps a lot.

[whistlestop]

Does anyone know of a UK outlet for the Taubman Videos? I went on the link provided but can't believe it would be $30 to ship to the UK! Tried Amazon but no luck there.

[indianajo]

playing with the wrists straight and the arms slanting down a little from the elbows to the keyboard, is recommended both by ergonomics texts for in the section on professional typing, and by my piano teacher 50 years ago.  Both recommended setting the work observed where the head can be held straight up over a straight back, with the line of sight straight out from the head to the work.  I have my computer monitor on three phone books to achieve this.  The piano, I am lucky my line of vision is straight out naturally, which saves having to make special holders for music.  
I still have numb hands sometimes when riding a bicycle, using a computer mouse, which requires a folded up hand, and some other noxious tasks when I do mechanical work.  Fortunately I have not experienced the numbness in the hands playing piano.  I believe numbness in the hands has been mentioned by people I knew that had been diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome. 
I got some relief when I was doing a lot of data entry for my employer, by sleeping with my hands wedged in the couch back cushions. which kept my wrists straight while asleep.  I had seen somebody actually diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome, and his physician had prescribed him leather collars around the wrists and hands that he wore while asleep.  This kept his wrists straight while asleep.  I found a lower cost solution.  
Good luck and certainly do some more reading, especially in college level ergonomics texts for factory safety departments.  Those results are based on scientific peer reviewed studies.  

[cometear]

Does anyone know of a UK outlet for the Taubman Videos? I went on the link provided but can't believe it would be $30 to ship to the UK! Tried Amazon but no luck there.

If the $30 is a problem, I'd like to pay for the shipping for you. I'm serious, I'd rather spend $30 for you to at least be exposed to this Approach.

[whistlestop]

If the $30 is a problem, I'd like to pay for the shipping for you. I'm serious, I'd rather spend $30 for you to at least be exposed to this Approach.

That's so kind. In fact, I had a brain blip and remembered someone writing about a site called The Well Balanced Pianist. This seems to be inspired by the Taubman approach so I shall study this carefully. I believe many of the DT tutorials are on youtube; maybe I should Bookmark them.

[louispodesta]

Does anyone know of a UK outlet for the Taubman Videos? I went on the link provided but can't believe it would be $30 to ship to the UK! Tried Amazon but no luck there.

1)  About 15 years ago, I had a social conversation with a neurologist family member about carpal tunnel syndrome.  His take on the matter was somewhat surprising.   In his opinion, most "diagnosed" carpal tunnel syndromes are in fact plain old tendonitis brought on by improper and over-practicing.

His simple reasoning was:  how did tens of thousands of early 20th century typists spend 8 to 12 hour days, six days a week, at their manual typewriter and do this for decades without permanently injuring themselves?

2)  My coach is Dr. Thomas Mark, whose book, "What Every Pianist Needs To Know About The Body," is on the bookshelf of practically every piano chair in the U.S. (www.pianomap.com).  He is a former Taubman practice coach, and also a former student of Edna Golkandsky.

However, he has taken piano technique to the next level which is to combine Taubman with the Alexander Technique, for which he is certified as a coach.

3)  As far as UK sources for his book, other than Amazon, you can find his "handbook," as he calls it, at any major university library that offers a degree in music.  The very same can be said for the Taubman tapes/videos/CD's.  And, at least in the U.S., it, along with the Taubman, is available to students for free!

[pianoman53]

Always be a bit skeptical to diagnoses like that. There are many other, much less dangerous diagnosis, that are way more likely and easier to get passed.

I had problems in my left hand, so I went to a hospital to check it out. They told me that I had Focal dystonia. So then they were happy to send me to three other doctors, that also said it was focal dystonia. None of them could help me, but "the next doctor surely could!". So it costed me a lot of money, and loads of mental problems occurred, and I was afraid of maybe not ever playing.

As a last chance, I went to this place, in another country. Turns out I had a stiff wrist... Now I've practiced for 2 days, and it have helped me more (and cost less) than any of the idiot doctors.

Just forget about your potential diagnose. Start over with your playing, and play scales in such a tempo so that nothing is tensed. I set a metronome on like 40, and played one note per beep. Super relaxed, with free arms, and free fingers.

Doctors nowadays wants to earn money, and tend to earn more the more rare and hardcore diagnose they give.

[pianoman53]

If it is, however, Carpal Tunnel, I'm obviously deeply sorry.

I frankly don't really have a cure for it. But in general, surgery should always be the last option.
What else have you tried? Physiotherapy, massage...?

[whistlestop]

Re: the Thomas Mark book - I've ordered it. Have seen it recommended elsewhere so it might be a useful read.
I haven't got carpal tunnel syndrome but an old shoulder injury sometimes bothers me after playing for a while, which is why I've taken an interest in the Taubmann approach ( and plan to consult an Alexander teacher shortly.)

[louispodesta]

Re: the Thomas Mark book - I've ordered it. Have seen it recommended elsewhere so it might be a useful read.
I haven't got carpal tunnel syndrome but an old shoulder injury sometimes bothers me after playing for a while, which is why I've taken an interest in the Taubmann approach ( and plan to consult an Alexander teacher shortly.)

Thank you very much for your well thought out insightful words.  And, since you broached the subject of your shoulder, I will respond, accordingly, in regards the "handbook" of Thomas Mark.

First, the Taubman folks, the original (and now the Golandsky Clan), keep harping on this "rotate the forearm, and then the arm will follow."  I, personally find this illustration hilarious because one would be able to teach a child to walk by telling them to stick out their foot, and then the whole body would follow along.

Secondly, Thomas Mark in his book (www.pianomap.com), utilizes the whole body concept of the Alexander Technique (which most major music schools now require).  Most importantly, it delineates that the upper-body point of articulation is not the elbow or the shoulder, but, instead, the sternovanicular joint where the collar bone joins the sternum.  This is the natural movement of the entire upper arm.

Please contact me by private message if any of you need further clarification.  And, I have never charged a fee for this advice.

[tombikadam]

How does one treat it? Are surgical interventions successful for pianists?

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