Does anything produce postive transfer results to your practicing?

[Bob]

Nothing with piano or music practicing.  Just pure free results.

You do something, you get better a piano/music.

Like exercise.  Exercise, better at music.  To some extent at least.


Have you experienced anything like that?  Something that transfers results to music?


The exercise thing I have to some extent.  I'm thinking it's just being able to recover from pushing things physically for practicing.  Or just being more alert from exercise, something like having the heart being able to pump blood better from exercising that also keeps happening during piano practice.

[j_menz]

I find breathing, the odd meal and a reasonably regular fluid intake all assist.

[chopinlover01]

Judo is what works for me. After you get choked out/thrown a few times, Bartok no longer seems so bad! Also, your sense of balance physically improves, making it mentally easier to imagine it through your hands.
Here, for your viewing pleasure, are some of the things we Judoka get to endure dozens of repetitions of on a weekly basis;
Harai Goshi; Sweeping Hip Throw:

(throw starts around 0:35)
Tai O Toshi; Forward Body Drop:

Ippon Seoi Nage; One Arm Shoulder Throw:

O Goshi; Major Hip Throw:

O Soto Gari; Major Outer Leg Reap:

Uchi Mata; Inner Thigh Throw:

Tomoe Nage; Circle Throw:

That's just the standing throws we endure. The chokes and joint locks are something else XD

[timothy42b]

I've practiced a good few of those when I used to work out regularly with a judo player.

But I'm a big fan of Ronda Rousey (Olympic judo medalist and now undefeated in UFC) and I never see her use those.  Probably we're all practicing the wrong thing.

In particular most of the books say O-soto and Tai-otoshi are street effective, but they clearly are MMA useless.

[8_octaves]

dozens of repetitions of on a weekly basis;

Hi chopinlover,

the repetitions you mention are very important for piano playing, I think. Piano players acquire reflexes by repeating, too.

And, for example, an ever-so-soft touch-impulse can evoke a series of a user-defined number of acquired reflexes, movements / moves which are very very quick...:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoT8qaktHFo

greetings, 8_octaves!

[awesom_o]

Have you experienced anything like that?  Something that transfers results to music?

To some extent, exercise. To a considerable extent...... JUGGLING!

[diomedes]

That's just the standing throws we endure. The chokes and joint locks are something else XD

Those were fun to watch.

I used to really think exercise was a big factor. But my learning methods have changed a bit and i generally do things if they have a very specific purpose. I find exercise takes time that could be spent doing more work/practice. Unless your mind actually needs a break. I notice that less, recently. However, i'm getting a tad fat.....

I do also think getting away from the piano once in a while is useful in itself, and i'm still trying to fit reading into my equation. But, again, not enough time.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Solving Rubik's puzzles and skateboarding.

[stevensk]

hand cream

[thalbergmad]

8 bottles of Speckled Hen.

Thal

[diomedes]

My musical logic parts at 2.5 pints of that fine substance, regrettably.

[stevensk]

a bottle of wine

[chopinlover01]

I've practiced a good few of those when I used to work out regularly with a judo player.

But I'm a big fan of Ronda Rousey (Olympic judo medalist and now undefeated in UFC) and I never see her use those.  Probably we're all practicing the wrong thing.

In particular most of the books say O-soto and Tai-otoshi are street effective, but they clearly are MMA useless.

For the street effectiveness (which is a subjective term in and of itself; what can be used effectively in self defense for one person might not work for another), Tai Otoshi and O soto are useful. But what's used in MMA and what's used successfully on the street are two different things. MMA has rules, where as someone trying to mug you (or worse) is only concerned with what they want, especially on the influence of any kind of substance.
Just for your information, O-soto is allegedly responsible for the most street fighting deaths of any thing fighting related ever in Japan (where Judo and Japanese JuJutsu is popular).
I'll see if I can find some videos of standing chokes...

[timothy42b]

But what's used in MMA and what's used successfully on the street are two different things. MMA has rules, where as someone trying to mug you (or worse) is only concerned with what they want, especially on the influence of any kind of substance.

MMA does have the rule problem, but it has weeded out the techniques that don't work at all and the techniques that can't be trusted to work on anybody skilled.

Since you never know how skilled a street fight opponent or mugger might be, it is folly to even think about a technique that might work against a poor fighter but not a good one.  Actually as a matter of ethics, you would never start a fight yourself, so are always going to be matched against someone who knows at least a little bit, and has had a bunch of previous fights. 

O-soto works well against somebody whose weight is back.  We don't ever see that in mma for obvious reasons.  On the street?  I haven't seen it, maybe you have.  (unless you're the aggressor, then o-soto is pretty easy, which may account for the japan stats) 

I've subdued a large number of people while working in state mental hospitals.  My solo throws are still zero, my solo takedowns by getting their back and spinning them down are numerous.  I have no idea if there's a name for that in judo.  Some kind of trip or reap I guess.  I used a lot of foot sweeps but never as a complete takedown, just to break balance enough they couldn't fight effectively. 

[chopinlover01]

O soto is a good solid technique for about any situation I've come across really. The fights I've gotten in were also with freshmen, so there's that XD I've almost gotten Tai O toshi right but I had to switch to O goshi at the last minute. Those takedowns you mentioned are very common in Japanese Jujutsu (I say that to distinguish from BJJ), one of which I use often as part of my repertoire.
Also, O soto is actually used quite a bit in MMA. Never as a fight ender, but usually as a transition into groundfighting. It's often taught in BJJ for this reason.
Tai O Toshi I've never seen used, which could be because it's not MMA effective, or it might be that the people who learn the throw are classical Judoka who don't bother with MMA  Hard to know.
Tomoe Nage (circle throw) has been used many times in street defense, not just by judoka. There's a video of a japanese court where one man attacked the other and the defender threw him and fractured his skull, allegedly.

[timothy42b]

O soto is a good solid technique for about any situation I've come across really.

Perhaps I never understood it correctly.  I never had formal training, just working out with some skilled friends.  Well, I trained a few years in taekwando but never found any usefulness to that.  It was fun though. 

O soto to me seemed to work really well if you were stronger than the other guy, not so well if you weren't.  And if I were stronger then it was easier to use an arm drag, step behind and trip or bear hug and spin them down.  (I used to laugh when I saw people demonstrating "defense against the bear hug."  You're going to be on the ground with me on top in no more than 1/4 second from the grab)  Remember too that working in a hospital I had pretty strict rules to avoid injuring anybody; many holds that would be legal in sports were forbidden, and of course chokes were impossible.

I left that job long ago and am now an office worker in my 60s. The days I could do that stuff are not going to return.   

[chopinlover01]

With proper Kuzushi (don't know if I spelled that right), or off-balancing, every throw in Judo works with little no to strength required. Even Ura Nage, the Judo equivalent of the wrestling suplex, requires minimal strength. Judo doesn't come naturally to everyone (just as piano doesn't), so it tends to get ignored or get a bad rep.
The hospital rules make sense. But if I'm behind you, I'm not going to utilize the bear hug; I take my middle finger and pull you back by the nose, as demonstrated in this video at around 1:51

(warning; lots of vulgar language for those of you that don't like it). Or, I apply a choke, typically the rear naked (AKA americana, california sleeper).

[timothy42b]

Thanks for sharing. That was a very enjoyable video.

I'm not sure that much of it would have worked, in my ten years on the back wards of state mental hospitals.  But then, none of us had the level of skill of the master you showed.  We were nurse's aides, responsible for patient care for an 8 hour shift, interspersed with the occasional violent mental patient who needed to be restrained, gently, so as not to hurt himself.

Would it be indulgent for me to tell a story?  As i left that job we figured I'd been part of at least 100 fights, some major and some very minor.  This one is instructive because i did a lot wrong and survived.

I was alone in a day room with a group of patients, one of whom had a long history of unprovoked attacks on nursing staff with serious injuries resulting.  He was 5'10", 180 pounds, not athletic or skilled, had organic brain syndrome as a result of multiple auto accidents and drug abuse.  I knew this, but he'd been on the ward 6 months without a single problem.  I did not know the doctors had changed his medication the day before.

He jumped out of a chair and swung a roundhouse right into my head.  I was completely unprepared and he hit me solidly.  My head went whang-whang-whang and i stepped back, only to get hit again from the other side, whang-whang-whang and a litlle voice said "oh s***" At this point I'd been spun a bit by the impact and he was not in front of me; my vision had narrowed to a tunnel under the adrenaline dump, and I could not for the life of me figure out where he was.  Whang-whang-whang I got hit again, and I still heard that little voice talking, but this time it was saying, "you're f** up"  Got hit again, head echoed a bit, and the voice said, you're screwing up, get it together.  Stepped back, got hit again, and the voice said "HEY MORON! Stepping back is getting you killed!"  Still couldn't see the dude, had no idea where he was, but I listened to the voice, stepped forward, and..........bumped into him.  Massive relief!  I knew where he was.  Did a double leg, picked him up, rapped him on the wall, rapped him on the floor (not stricly kosher by the rules, but I was in survival mode, and I DID NOT hit him, and climbed on top and subdued him.  The fight ended with me never having seen him.  I would dearly love to know what to do about adrenaline induced tunnel vision under real world threat.  But i don't. 

[chopinlover01]

I've met people of similar levels of skill (and lower with these same results), and we did a test of "I come at you any way I want, completely unorthodox), and I have to say, what makes the difference is live training, another reason why I love Judo. Randori, which I also just happened to have come back from, is an essential (full intensity) drill that's essential to Judo. You pair up with someone and both of you try 100% to throw the other.
Your story was very good to read; it provided an insight into the thought process under extreme stress. As for what to do, it's a matter of keeping a cool head, quite paradoxically. Like piano, performing under extreme stress is best learning by, you guessed it, performing under extreme stress. These would mean getting into fights where the other person is legitimately trying to hurt you; ie sparring/competition, which also weeds out useless techniques as you mentioned earlier.