Do you actually enjoy performing?

[sciguy]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post, so be gentle. A bit of background: I'm an adult beginner who has been playing for a few years now.  I have played at various recitals held by my instructors and most of my performances have been (by my own estimation) trainwrecks.  Handfuls of wrong notes, forgetting whole sections of a piece, etc. Only on two occasions can I actually recall having a relatively error free performance.

I realize that my bad performances are to a certain extent my own fault.  From a technical point of view I feel I am well prepared.  The pieces are usually heavily memorized and my technique is not labored. However, I never actually bother to practice the pieces in front of other people.  As I say, I am an adult beginner, who is also a graduate student.  I live alone, am very busy most days, and have no real piano support system.  My practicing tends to remain exclusively a solitary endeavour within the confines the conservatory’s practice rooms (where my lessons are held) isolated from foreign ears.  If I do manage to do some practicing at home in my apartment, it’s by myself at odd hours of the night with headphones plugged into my digital piano (because its an apartment I can't make too much noise).

That being said, I have recently begun to question whether my performance problems might be more than just a failure to practice my pieces in front of other people.  I had never really considered this until recently, but perhaps I just don't enjoy performing for people.  Even on those rare occasions when I have performed well, the satisfaction I felt was more like the kind of satisfaction you feel when you have completed a test in school and done relatively well.  It’s just a wave of relief like. . "Yes! I survived".  It never felt like I was playing for the audience.  It was more like I was playing in spite of the audience. As though they were an obstacle I had to overcome.

What does everyone think?  Am I the only one who feels this way? Suggestions?

[j_menz]

If you don't want to perform, don't perform. I'm assuming you are playing the piano for your own pleasure and not intending to make a career of it, so why gain "experience" in something you don't intend to actually do?

[mjames]

If you don't want to perform, don't perform. I'm assuming you are playing the piano for your own pleasure and not intending to make a career of it, so why gain "experience" in something you don't intend to actually do?

^^^^^^^^^

j_menz best member 2015

[outin]

  Am I the only one who feels this way?

No. I have not and will not take part in my teacher's recitals.

I've never really had much enjoyment in performing to people. Even in things I was more accomplished than I'll ever be with the piano, I never was able to connect with the audience. I was uncomfortable with feedback (even though positive) that reminded me of their existence and disturbed my own thoughts about the performance. And you are supposed to pretend to be grateful and interested in their opinion  

But I guess it's because of my personality, I just don't feel any emotional connection or "togetherness" with groups of people in the way most people do. The kind of "mass hysteria" that happens in events is always a source of wonder to me...

So now when I try to learn piano I am much more interested in learning to record, so that I'll be able to listen to my performances myself

[stevensk]

^^^^^^^^^

j_menz best member 2015

I suspect that mjames and  j_menz is the same person 

[outin]

I suspect that mjames and  j_menz is the same person 

It's possible, since he's other personality seems to have disappeared from this forum...probably can only handle so many at the time...

[ted]

No. I have not and will not take part in my teacher's recitals.

I've never really had much enjoyment in performing to people. Even in things I was more accomplished than I'll ever be with the piano, I never was able to connect with the audience. I was uncomfortable with feedback (even though positive) that reminded me of their existence and disturbed my own thoughts about the performance. And you are supposed to pretend to be grateful and interested in their opinion  

But I guess it's because of my personality, I just don't feel any emotional connection or "togetherness" with groups of people in the way most people do. The kind of "mass hysteria" that happens in events is always a source of wonder to me...

So now when I try to learn piano I am much more interested in learning to record, so that I'll be able to listen to my performances myself

That is exactly how I react. I avoid big mobs of people at the best of times; if I were the centre of attention as well it would be unbearable. Neither do I find a live concert the best way to listen. I have managed to play for small groups at private parties but I am never at my best. The whole thing goes back to when I was nine or ten and I was forced to perform. It ended up with my stopping playing altogether for several years amid frightful family rows.

Yes, I really enjoy the recording process too, and listening to it afterwards, especially with improvisation, and experience not the slightest anxiety about it. After all, if it turns out no good you just delete it and try again, nothing depends on it. If it turns out all right, which it actually does most of the time, you can give it to people to hear at their leisure.

[j_menz]

I suspect that mjames and  j_menz is the same person  

Your judgment might be taken more seriously if your grammar was better. Or you may be thought to be another of my other selves.

"are" the same person.  

What, that's number 37 and counting on other mes. You people need a life.  

My spellchecker also apparently need to cope with first person singular plurals.

[bronnestam]

No. I have not and will not take part in my teacher's recitals.

I've never really had much enjoyment in performing to people. Even in things I was more accomplished than I'll ever be with the piano, I never was able to connect with the audience. I was uncomfortable with feedback (even though positive) that reminded me of their existence and disturbed my own thoughts about the performance. And you are supposed to pretend to be grateful and interested in their opinion  

But I guess it's because of my personality, I just don't feel any emotional connection or "togetherness" with groups of people in the way most people do. The kind of "mass hysteria" that happens in events is always a source of wonder to me...

So now when I try to learn piano I am much more interested in learning to record, so that I'll be able to listen to my performances myself

I feel just like you. And I thought I was the only one, hahaha.

Ok, seriously, I had a long discussion with my teacher about this the other day. She is planning a little recital within two months and I have accepted to join as I know this means a LOT to her, as she does not have many students and I am by far the most experienced one. We are also to play 4 hands, she and I, and I really look forward to it as it is FUN.

But nevertheless, I hate to perform. Most of my performances (back in those days annodazumal) were disasters. I got nervous and wrecked up completely and yes, my only goal was to survive. I did not enjoy one second of it otherwise, I got paralyzed with stage fright, I just remember horrible moments of cold sweat, ice cold hands, humiliating failures and ... I have never heard any applause. Not that I did not get any, of course I did, but I never heard them. My head was in such chaos that I just took my notes - no memorizing here, noo way - and stumbled off the stage.

On the other hand, I have performed with other things and actually enjoyed it quite a lot. I played in a recorder ensemble and even though I sometimes got nervous and tense so that my head stated to shake (awful) I normally "survived" quite well and thought it was rather rewarding. We made many performances in many venues.
I also studied classical ballet for many, many years. The performances were ... big issues, lots and lots of rehearsals, the preparation was FUN. And when it was about time to enter the stage, we were all shivering with stage fright and it was rather terrible at first, but after a few minutes it was ok. Next appearance on stage was just fun, I smiled and loved to show off a bit, even though I was not very good.

I have also made a few appearances as a novel writer. I have read parts of my book aloud and had a discussion with the audience. NO big deal, actually I liked it a lot. Why be nervous - the job was done, right? The novel was already written, I had nothing else to prove, so I was not very nervous. Not in an uncomfortable way, at least.

Two years ago I attended a little piano seminar with my friend, the concert pianist. He asked me to come up on stage, because I had talked about an issue I had and he wanted to make a demonstration. I had just picked piano playing up for real again, I had just began to learn a new piano piece - it was the Adagio of the Pathétique sonata. I could not play it at all. As a matter of fact, I started in the wrong key and we just laughed and then he used me as a model to show how to sit at the piano etcetera. But I also was astonished to notice that I was NOT nervous and my hands did NOT shake at all. First, I am much older now, I guess I have learned a few things during the last decades. Second, I had my own piano idol and friend next to me, and his enthusiasm and love for the piano was almost electric when he was that close. I simply enjoyed the moment, I did not give a sh*t about the rest of the audience. I just wanted to be there and absorb this enthusiasm and energy and afterwards I was incredibly happy. I was high.

So ... being on stage can be anything from "facing the execution squad" to the happiest moment in your life.

What I know is that I love to play the piano. Of course I sometimes would like to share this joy with other people, to give them something of what I feel myself, because there IS a moment of magic when you share music with others. The best musical moments I've had have been when I have played with someone else. But is this the same as performing? I don't think so.

And forget about me participating in contests. Will never happen.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

@ the OP:

It's certainly true that some people are better temperamentally equipped for performance than others. However, your post leads me to think that you're viewing performance in the wrong way, as if the audience was packed full of critics, and the event is some sort of confrontation. The audience is your friend! (Unless you do something that really annoys them.) The audience comes for a little bit of music and entertainment, they're not there to count your wrong notes, and most of all they are on your side. It's amazing what can go wrong and audiences still seem to not notice. Once you realise that, I think you'll feel more comfortable and it will get easier. Additionally, you should consider playing pieces in front of friends as practice - not full-blown recitals, just "what do you think of this?" and play a short piece. 

[stevensk]

Your judgment might be taken more seriously if your grammar was better. Or you may be thought to be another of my other selves.

"are" the same person.  

What, that's number 37 and counting on other mes. You people need a life.  

My spellchecker also apparently need to cope with first person singular plurals.

I bet mjames agree whith you 

[thorn]

Rather than saying "performing", I enjoy sharing music that people are probably not familiar with. I like people coming up to me after a performance and saying "what was that piece called, I want to look it up when I get home".

I'm performing a couple of pieces from Iberia at the weekend. Your average audience has never heard of it. If I can play well enough for one member of my audience to go home and listen to a "real" pianist playing it, then I'm the happiest person on Earth.

It's much more gratifying than playing the same old.

[timothy42b]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the pursuit of piano excellence as a solitary hobby.  If that is the way you are structured, simply enjoy it and don't torture yourself with somebody else thinks you should be doing.   It's a heck of a lot more worthwhile than a lot of other hobbies or interests.   

But, that's not me.  If I would never perform, I would never practice, it would seem pointless. 

There's more than one path on the way to our final destination!

The Elwood Blues I know once said that no pharmaceutical product could ever equal the rush you get when the band hits that groove; the people are dancin', and shoutin', and swayin'; and the house is rockin'!

I saw a talk show interview where a rock musician, might have been from the Rolling Stones, was asked about their clubbing and partying after the show.  He told the host, (paraphrased) "you don't understand.  We don't party to get high.  When we're doing a show, the adrenaline is not just flowing, it's rushing through us like a fire hose.  We party to come down." 

[1piano4joe]

Hi sciguy,

Yes, I enjoy performing.

My venues have included:

1. My living room for friends and family. I'm just playing or practicing. They are listening although it often doesn't seem like it since they could be talking among themselves or on the phone, reading the paper quietly or doing housework. So, I am often surprised when one of them says, "You've gotten a lot better" or "I really like that, what is it". I even get a request now and then. It's almost always something they have heard me play before. They NEVER applause though.

2. Also, I have played several times at piano dealers just trying out their pianos or a new piece I just polished to see what it sounds like on a $100,000.00 instrument. I once played a Steinway D, alone, in a Steinway dealer's auditorium. I thought nobody was listening since all the seats were empty but I was heard back out front in the showroom. Often, however, it's a noisy floor where families are considering a piano purchase and several other customers are "performing". No applause here either but I was surprised when I stopped playing to see that a small crowd had gathered behind me. I had just finished playing Melody Bober's "Sea Winds" on a $70,000.00 Shigeru Kawai. That is one very, very nice piece and the piano was one of the best I ever played. I give all the credit to the composer and the maker of that fine instrument.

3. I have played at "open microphone events" where I typically play one or two pieces that I have known since the beginning of time. I'm not usually nervous and it goes well. Everybody applauses here for every performer regardless of mistakes. Everyone is having a good time. It's a fun environment. These are very hard to find and often I am playing a PSO (piano shaped object) that can be quite out of tune and they still like it and applaud even though my ears are practically bleeding and I'm crying inside from what I just heard. No, not my playing but the instrument.

4. I have asked to use the piano on a cruise ship, in hotels and even in restaurants. The answer is usually no. I ask since 99% of the time the pianos are locked and also it can be quite unpleasant when told not to touch the piano no matter how well you play and I much prefer a positive experience.

At one of the hotels I was asked, "What time are you playing tonight"? I couldn't believe it. People wanted to plan their evening and those plans included listening to my playing! At another I was walking around the property and the other hotel guests treated me like I was some sort of celebrity. "It's our pianist. You play so well. How long have you been playing"?

The restaurants usually have a decent baby grand piano that's in tune as they have nights where they pay someone to play. Usually, they let me play as long as I want which is maybe 10-15 minutes as I have other people with me. I think they appreciate the change of repertoire from their usual pianist. There is more applause for some pieces than others. It's usually the popular pieces and not the classical ones. Journey's "Open Arms" has never, ever failed to get an applause.  

So, yes I enjoy performing, Joe.

P.S. Welcome to Pianostreet!

[stevensk]

" Am I the only one who feels this way? Suggestions?"

-You are absolutely not the only one who feels this way.-Why must you play for others if you dont feel  comfortable whith it? Skip it!

[expressman70]

I love performing although I do get nervous a little. I think it builds your confidence. If it really stresses you then whatever, but you really have nothing to lose, but gain many great skills. But if you don't like that, don't do it.

[amytsuda]

No. I have not and will not take part in my teacher's recitals.

I had the same sentiment here. As an adult hobbyist, I really don't see a point of those recitals. You get your family and friends come to cheer you, and you have family and friends of other performers in the audience. And that's the only reason why they come to this hall. Most audience generally come one person before their friend performer, and leave one person after the friend. For teenage kids to show off their talents, it is okay, but for mid-40 old amateur who can't pull those tricks on virtuoso stuff, I don't see a point.

Having said that, at home or friend's houses, I do play for friends and family and even for neighbors, when they ask for ones. Or I play a duet or accompanying others in casual gatherings (since I am decent at sight-reading). I even performed for colleagues when we had a piano in a restaurant during a company gathering.... or even in a cafe for complete strangers.... I like those settings better and I actually really enjoy performing. It is not like someone on the stage and audience on the seats - -most cases, I am simply background music for them to have a good party. I wish I can go back to days of salon!

[outin]

^I can admit that I have a sligthly eccentric taste in music. So I don't see how I could ever find a live audience that would really enjoy listening to my playing. I am not willing to start learning the kind of pieces "normal" people can enjoy, so I think it's a blessing for everyone that I don't feel the need to perform 

[amytsuda]

^I can admit that I have a sligthly eccentric taste in music. So I don't see how I could ever find a live audience that would really enjoy listening to my playing. I am not willing to start learning the kind of pieces "normal" people can enjoy, so I think it's a blessing for everyone that I don't feel the need to perform 

I see you are learning Franck Prelude and Schumann Gesänge der Frühe. Those are perfect to entertain friends, family and colleagues in gatherings. I find they enjoy calmer music like those. And also most classic music lovers!

[outin]

I see you are learning Franck Prelude and Schumann Gesänge der Frühe. Those are perfect to entertain friends, family and colleagues in gatherings. I find they enjoy calmer music like those. And also most classic music lovers!

You obviously don't know Finns 

[amytsuda]

Well, I heard that Japanese and Finns share the origin years and years ago?! 

[outin]

Well, I heard that Japanese and Finns share the origin years and years ago?! 

Are you suggesting there's some truth about the myth that we are Mongoloid in origin? 

When I try to play music that I like, most people tell me it's funeral music and ask if I could play something more lively...then I try Scarlatti and they ask if I can play evergreens or even some Beethoven or Mozart that they recognize...that's when I give up...

Chopin waltzes would probably make them happy, but I cannot stand walzes

[cometear]

In response to the OP, I was just thinking this today as I was performing on the trombone, and the piece had a difficult orchestral solo. I couldn't wait to get off the stage and do something else. There were parts in the performance I enjoyed thoroughly though, and part of the reason I was so stressed was because of my lack of preparation.

If you don't want to perform, don't perform. I'm assuming you are playing the piano for your own pleasure and not intending to make a career of it, so why gain "experience" in something you don't intend to actually do?

It's good to try a variety of things to see whether you enjoy it or not. Even if you don't enjoy performing, and do not intend to continue doing it as a career, it still builds good life skills.

[j_menz]

It's good to try a variety of things to see whether you enjoy it or not. Even if you don't enjoy performing, and do not intend to continue doing it as a career, it still builds good life skills.

If the OP was twelve, that would be perfectly true and my answer would have been different accordingly. Adult beginners are in a different position and can decide for themselves if something is enjoyable or more broadly useful - or not.

[Bob]

Your judgment might be taken more seriously if your grammar was better. Or you may be thought to be another of my other selves.

"are" the same person.  

What, that's number 37 and counting on other mes. You people need a life.  

My spellchecker also apparently need to cope with first person singular plurals.

As a sidenote, I'd like to point out that jmenz is a future version of me.  I'm not sure how that happens -- I'm the one from the past, so that makes sense.  Just throwing it out there.  I'm not aware of any transformations like that besides this one.


On the topic of the thread, I like and don't like certain parts of performance.  Goals and focus are good.  I always get something out of it.  Stress and speeding up time aren't great though.  

I don't remember hearing anyone say they really hated a performance after they did it either.  I remember telling one teacher I had that I didn't want to perform, but he said that was part of the whole point.  And it's you, the performer, communicating to someone else.  He was trying to convince me to perform a piece though, and it was in his interest too.  I still tend to agree with that though.  The point is at some point to have something prepared to communicate to someone else.  Making a recording can work though too.  Part of it is packaging the whole thing up and delivering a final product.  If the pieces are always left open, there's not the closing part, even though there's always something left to work on.  At some point though, you have to wrap up what you've got and make that the final version.

I suppose the piece only lives "live" when you're performing it, whether to an audience or not, but to someone, even if it's yourself from a recording.  While you're performing, you're only hearing that angle on it.  A lot of brainpower is going into producing the sounds, not the listening.  At some point, whatever you work on would need to go into a final product, and that product will exist in a moment you create when you've put all the work you're going to put into it, when you've 'compromised' on how the final product will sound, and then when you finally perform the final product as best you can.  I'd lean towards getting a recording of that.  Playing for an audience might be great, but... what do you care later, esp. if they don't really appreciate the work that goes into it (still a win on your side for learning though in any case). 

[rmbarbosa]

I do like to perform.
For me, to perform is like a "comunion" between me and the public. Audience and me feeling the same feelings, the beauty of the Music, its eternal beauty...
That`s why I never feel any stage disconfort...

[stevensk]

"As a sidenote, I'd like to point out that jmenz is a future version of me.  I'm not sure how that happens --"


-Oh my God, three versions of Menz. If you are not sure how that happens, I am 

[Bob]

"As a sidenote, I'd like to point out that jmenz is a future version of me.  I'm not sure how that happens --"


-Oh my God, three versions of Menz. If you are not sure how that happens, I am 

Who's the third one?  And how does that happen?  I have a guess but....

[markh13]

I perform quite regularly, and even though I am pretty good at controlling nerves and delivering a good performance, the experience is NEVER enjoyable... At least not until after the event, when you can relax and reflect.

One tip that I've found quite useful when preparing for recitals is to try and put yourself in a frame of mind as close to that which you will be feeling when you actually perform. For example, I close my eyes, imagine I'm at the hall, walk up to the piano, introduce myself/my pieces, sit down, ready myself for the 'performance', then play the pieces in concert mode, not allowing any stops, repeats etc.

This can be especially useful if you just do the opening few bars of your recital in this way - you can do it 10/20/30 times, and each time you 'normalise' the experience, and prepare yourself better for the actual performance.

It takes a little practice to get the hang of, but can be hugely useful.

[1piano4joe]

Hi markh 13,

One tip that I've found quite useful when preparing for recitals is to try and put yourself in a frame of mind as close to that which you will be feeling when you actually perform. For example, I close my eyes, imagine I'm at the hall, walk up to the piano, introduce myself/my pieces, sit down, ready myself for the 'performance', then play the pieces in concert mode, not allowing any stops, repeats etc.

It takes a little practice to get the hang of, but can be hugely useful.

I do exactly that at home and it has been hugely useful.

In addition, I do something that may sound kind of funny, but at the recital I continue to ready myself for the performance.

First, I walk up to the piano, imagine I'm at home, turn introduce myself/my pieces just like I do at home to an empty room, adjust the bench if possible to make it like home, sit down, now I close my eyes and imagine my piano at home in my living room and give myself a pep talk.

"I've played this piece a gazillion times, I know it very well. This is going to blow them away. They are absolutely going to love this". All I have to do is play it like I do at home. So, I just have to play the pieces in "home mode". I find this especially helps with nerves and my hands don't shake as much.

I try to put myself into a frame of mind as close to that feeling that I'm at home! This may sound peculiar but it works for me.

There is ALWAYS an audience. ME. I'm the toughest critic. I know the pieces intimately. I know what's going to happen before they do. Even other more accomplished pianists who know the pieces, haven't heard MY interpretation, have they?

I take a few deep breaths and I arrogantly, say to myself, "If they don't like my performance/interpretation, that's their problem".

Lastly, in any large group of people, there is always varying positions. For example, 1/4 will love my performance, 1/4 will fall asleep snoring, 1/4 will walk out and another 1/4 won't have any opinion one way or another. I've done all these things myself at one time or another since sometimes, I'm one of the audience members.

I am now prepared, Joe.

[pianoisthebest23]

I agree with markh13 that (for the most part) the actual performances aren't really enjoyable until afterwards, probably because either my piano teacher or a teacher I've had a master class with is usually attending and I know that they're listening for any mistake(s). I used to get so nervous before every performance, and I realized that the nerves were caused mainly because there was always something I felt unsure of. I still get nervous when I feel prepared, but in an adrenaline fueled way that I can use to my advantage. I find that when I don't feel nervous at all, things also tend to go wrong!

Now, when I know I have a performance coming up, I also try to put myself into a "concert" mindset. Being someone who's very prone to memory slips, I film myself A LOT, because I find that I often play the same way I would in a performance when I know I'm being recorded.

[markh13]

I try to put myself into a frame of mind as close to that feeling that I'm at home! This may sound peculiar but it works for me.

Very interesting idea Joe, I'd never thought about doing the process in reverse, but I can see how that would be very useful... I have a recital next week, so will try it out then!

[markh13]

Being someone who's very prone to memory slips, I film myself A LOT, because I find that I often play the same way I would in a performance when I know I'm being recorded.

That's another excellent idea. I think when you're filming yourself - similar to live recitals - you're very aware of the need to play accurately, and so you tailor your playing accordingly (safer, more cautious, fewer risks, less flamboyance).

That's not necessarily a good thing - but at my level, I'm simply not good enough to abandon myself to the music!

[dcstudio]

I love to perform.  Really...love it! I show off every chance I get... 
but I have been playing for decades...  when I was young I hated to play in front of people..it just scared the crap out of me.   I got over it though...   so will you

[stevensk]

I love to perform.  Really...love it! I show off every chance I get...  
but I have been playing for decades...  when I was young I hated to play in front of people..it just scared the crap out of me.   I got over it though...  so will you

-The same to me! I really really love to perform and thats one of the reasons why I choosed this job. I am relaxed when I perform in front of an audience and I enjoy it  (but not at home whith my family, they dont like it....THATS a  problem.)


Cool video "dcstudio"!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

^^^^^^^^^

j_menz best member 2015

No I'M the best member of 2015

[theholygideons]

No I'M the best member of 2015

How is that so, you're never focking on anymore.