Total number of pieces in repertoire

[dantesonata]

Hi,
Recently I've been asked by a non-classically inclined person how many pieces are in the classical repertoire. Unable to find this information with any degree of precision, I'm now asking this forum for your estimation. It seems worth knowing, how many pieces of worthwhile substance are available to a classical pianist?

Obscure pieces or composers of little to no value are not counted. This list would include all the pieces played or recorded by performing pianists from early Baroque to 21st century.

[8_octaves]

Hi,
Recently I've been asked by a non-classically inclined person how many pieces are in the classical repertoire. Unable to find this information with any degree of precision, I'm now asking this forum for your estimation. It seems worth knowing, how many pieces of worthwhile substance are available to a classical pianist?

Obscure pieces or composers of little to no value are not counted. This list would include all the pieces played or recorded by performing pianists from early Baroque to 21st century.

Hi Dantesonata,

there are problems.

First, the subjectivity. "Worthwile substance" and "no value" depend on the persons' views.

Second, we'll have to admit it's nearly impossible to reach too far into the past: Nobody can definitely tell which pieces exactly were PLAYED by some "Clavier"-players from the Barock-period, e.g.
May be there are only written reviews and comments, and all in all it would be a too unreliable thing, in my opinion.

But also in newer times, when there were recording-techniques available, it's sometimes hard to find out, which pieces actually were PLAYED by pianists. Sometimes they only played pieces at home, for private purpose, which a ) never were recorded or, b ) IF they were, somehow, recorded, it could be that these recordings might exist, but weren't found or published up to now.

If we started with the piano-roll-recordings, we would have, in my opinion, a better "starting-point" to deal with your question.

There are rollographies of famous pianists and composers, there are even recordings of some on YT (but some seem to be fake or unsure, e.g. in the Joplin - area, but some seem ok there, too) , there are other very old recordings, and to look further into the NEWER times, there is arkivmusic.com, where we can look for RECORDINGS of PERFORMERS. But we'll have to add them up, by hand, to get a "basis". I don't want to do that.  

https://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/main.jsp

But it, maybe, could provide a little hint of "relevance".

Third: Even in addition to the recordings of performers on arkivmusic.com ,there are -as I said- may be private recordings or other ones not being registered there. So we have to add to the arkivmusic.com - number for example the Youtube-findings of pieces of interest, played by performers, and not registered in arkivmusic.

Have fun!  

Cordially, 8_oct!

[michael_c]

Maurice Hinson's Guide to the Pianist's Repertoire is one of the most comprehensive guides. It apparently lists nearly 2000 solo piano works in the classical repertoire.

Of course any such repertoire list will be subjective, since nobody will agree on which composers are of sufficient value to be included or not, but it gives you an idea of what is considered to be standard repertoire.

[28843253]

It tickles me to imagine at some point in time a bored academic attempting this same question and finding it rather less intriguing the longer the paper got.

[dantesonata]

Hi Dantesonata,

there are problems.

First, the subjectivity. "Worthwile substance" and "no value" depend on the persons' views.

Second, we'll have to admit it's nearly impossible to reach too far into the past: Nobody can definitely tell which pieces exactly were PLAYED by some "Clavier"-players from the Barock-period, e.g.
May be there are only written reviews and comments, and all in all it would be a too unreliable thing, in my opinion.

But also in newer times, when there were recording-techniques available, it's sometimes hard to find out, which pieces actually were PLAYED by pianists. Sometimes they only played pieces at home, for private purpose, which a ) never were recorded or, b ) IF they were, somehow, recorded, it could be that these recordings might exist, but weren't found or published up to now.

If we started with the piano-roll-recordings, we would have, in my opinion, a better "starting-point" to deal with your question.

There are rollographies of famous pianists and composers, there are even recordings of some on YT (but some seem to be fake or unsure, e.g. in the Joplin - area, but some seem ok there, too) , there are other very old recordings, and to look further into the NEWER times, there is arkivmusic.com, where we can look for RECORDINGS of PERFORMERS. But we'll have to add them up, by hand, to get a "basis". I don't want to do that. 

https://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/main.jsp

But it, maybe, could provide a little hint of "relevance".

Third: Even in addition to the recordings of performers on arkivmusic.com ,there are -as I said- may be private recordings or other ones not being registered there. So we have to add to the arkicmusic.com - number for example the Youtube-findings of pieces of interest, played by performers, and not registered in arkivmusic.

Have fun! 

Cordially, 8_oct!

Indeed, it is hard to quantify because there are many variables and subjective judgements. That said, I do consider it an interesting and relevant question that can reach a general consensus answer. My estimate is 30000-40000 pieces. It can only be an estimate because as you mentionned private recordings and personal preference for obscure pieces are difficult to get exact numbers for.

Thanks for the input, keep them coming!

[dantesonata]

Maurice Hinson's Guide to the Pianist's Repertoire is one of the most comprehensive guides. It apparently lists nearly 2000 solo piano works in the classical repertoire.

Of course any such repertoire list will be subjective, since nobody will agree on which composers are of sufficient value to be included or not, but it gives you an idea of what is considered to be standard repertoire.

Classical period or entire classical repertoire? Bach's output for keyboard instruments alone is >500.

[8_octaves]

Thanks for the input, keep them coming!

Classical period or entire classical repertoire? Bach's output for keyboard instruments alone is >500.

What we can assume, is, that the pieces in the "Virginal books" (see others linked by WP, end of article), of which this one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitzwilliam_Virginal_Book

https://imslp.org/wiki/Fitzwilliam_Virginal_Book_%28Tregian,_Francis_%28the_Younger%29%29

 is a very famous one (I played through some pieces of it, since a modern ed. of the 2 volumes is in a library nearby), were known to baroque clavier players. And by contemporary pianists / cembalists, too!

cordially, 8_oct!

[diomedes]

Recently I've been asked by a non-classically inclined person how many pieces are in the classical repertoire.

Tell them whatever the number they think it might be and multiply it times 100 or any number above that.

I'm being somewhat serious actually.

[stevensk]

About one million pieces  (1000.000). Could be more

[dantesonata]

About one million pieces  (1000.000). Could be more

Wow! How did you calculate that figure roughly?

[thorn]

"How many pieces in the classical piano repertoire" is too vast a question for the answer to be of any use to anyone.

If you're talking of a "standard list", that's something more realistic. I personally just go by the Diploma syllabuses because as a post grade 8 pianist that suits me best. I don't know of any standardised list which includes pre grade 8 stuff but I've heard the Hinson book mentioned a few times so that sounds a good bet.

[dantesonata]

"How many pieces in the classical piano repertoire" is too vast a question for the answer to be of any use to anyone.

If you're talking of a "standard list", that's something more realistic. I personally just go by the Diploma syllabuses because as a post grade 8 pianist that suits me best. I don't know of any standardised list which includes pre grade 8 stuff but I've heard the Hinson book mentioned a few times so that sounds a good bet.

I respectfully disagree. Naturally it's impractical to use a number in the 30-40k range in deciding a piece but to someone like the person who asked me the question it's a valid concept to consider: with what breadth do pianists have to choose from?

This is useful for helping those not interested in classical understand why playing "classical" continues to offer new possible pieces both to listen to and play with respect to a single human mind. Most thriving arts are those that are continually renewed, and classical piano unfortunately doesn't have many new pieces being written every year. That's why it appears all the more important and interesting to know what we have to work with.

[outin]

We could just make a list of the well known composers, then count how many known keyboard pieces they wrote. That gives us a base figure. Then depending on how interested we are in less known/obscure stuff multiply that by maybe 1,5...or even 2?

[j_menz]

with what breadth do pianists have to choose from?

In my case, about 20 odd feet.

[outin]

In my case, about 20 odd feet.

How does that differ from 20 normal feet? (Not that I would know how long that is either)

[j_menz]

How does that differ from 20 normal feet? (Not that I would know how long that is either)

It means a bit over 20 feet ( = 6m), though by an unspecified amount.

[outin]

It means a bit over 20 feet ( = 6m), though by an unspecified amount.

I'm quite envious, I only have about 1m and that includes quite a lot of duplicates...and much that is simply unplayable 

[stevensk]

Wow! How did you calculate that figure roughly?

I know these kind of things

[8_octaves]

Wow! How did you calculate that figure roughly?

I know these kind of things

Hi stevensk,
some source, nevertheless, wouldn't be bad to get, here, I think.

Let's take 10000 (ten thousand) composers. Each of them has to have composed no less than 100 pieces in average, which must be known, which must be  -subjectively- worthy, and which must have made it into "repertoire" and consciousness of -allowedly, I must confess-  a wide variety of pianists and which must be able to be approved by investigation, at least approximately...

Let's not forget that we would have to "delete" many redundant ones, (as foreposters already pointed out), until only ONE of the specimens prevails......(e.g.: sets of the same pieces that were reported / recorded by a quantity of keyboard-players, or more than once, or are referred / reported to have been played by one or a quantity of players more than once ). That's even relevant to sources like arkivmusic.com, if we dare to add them up, at first.)

Our thoughts must approach, then, the IMSLP-resource. And our brain COULD count the ones collected there, as an addition to the ones in the already mentioned resources.

But we have, then, to watch out for copyright issues (newer music shouldn't be on IMSLP), and for the "Anonymous" pieces and collections, which- up to now- nobody can attribute to a specific composer. So we have to subtract:

a ) the redundant playings / recordings, after THOROUGH research in the sources mentioned,
b ) the "Anonymous" works,
c ) Collections, which one likes - and others would estimate as "crap".

On the other hand, I myself have more than 800 volumes and / or single editions of piano-stuff here at home, and some parts of my "collection" weren't even investigated by me,  they are still bound together, in the cellar, since I have inherited them.

This way, @stevensk, you may be right. But to call some of them "repertoire, belonging to the imprtant epoques", won't make it, I think, since part of that stuff consists in e.g. volumes, whose contents only were played in families to delight the mother or father, or sth. like that. E.g.: "Musikalische Edelsteine", many volumes.
 
Cordially, 8_octaves!

[stoat_king]

I think your 30k-40k estimate is a good one for the simple reason that it sounds right lol
Since its impossible to calculate, 'sounding right' becomes a valid criterion imo

[ianw]

The website at www.pianosyllabus.com lists 12,836 entries, and I suspect that's much less than 1/3rd of the available repertoire. The https://www.classicsonline.com site lists 1,636,627 tracks - how many of these are piano only? 10%?

[thorn]

with what breadth do pianists have to choose from?

A wider breadth than they ever allow themselves. In your first post you say you're not counting obscure pieces and composers or those not recorded. You are already limiting yourself.

[stevensk]

-Ok two limits then, the pieces must be "available to a classical pianist?"  I include organ and cembalo/clavicord pieces in that. Even all these myriads of basso continuo sonatas Ok? 
-How shall we interpret "available"?  -Easy available is sheets from IMSLP or from a library nearby. -Ok then its not 1000.000.
But  LOTS of sheetmusic is found in churces in Europe,museums, individuals, and institutions around the world. Think of it, its almost 400 years of music history.

[8_octaves]

Hi all,

look:

The RISM is a source we can freely access. Purpose and aims of this famous resource (which is, partly, available in printed form (volumes), too), is characterized here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9pertoire_International_des_Sources_Musicales

Please read very thoroughly through the structural elements and conception of the Rism.

And online-access to the DB is here:

https://opac.rism.info/metaopac/search.do?methodToCall=selectLanguage&Language=en

But, as pointed out before, we have to subtract many ones, and, perhaps, to add many ones, too. For example, some parts of the Rism do record not only scores / music, but also written articles or papers (see => structure / purpose) .

Cordially, 8_octaves!