more but subtle mistakes vs. fewer but obvious mistakes

[chopincat]

I've just done two recordings of the same piece for an audition tape. Neither recording is perfect, because the piece just isn't 100% there yet. But I have a deadline, so there's nothing I can really do about that now.

Anyway, in the first recording, I make fewer mistakes. However, the mistakes I do make are very obvious - I cringe when I hear them. In the second recording, I make more mistakes, but they're a bit more subtle - fingers slipping a little bit, and things that you might not necessarily hear unless you knew the piece. Mistakes aside, I think they're about the same artistically.

So my question is, which is a better recording to send in? I wish I could upload them both and ask which sounds better, but unfortunately uploads take a very long time on my computer, so I can't really do that right now.

[amytsuda]

What are pieces? Where are the obvious mistakes v.s. subtle mistakes in those pieces?

[stevensk]

 
It depends on what, where and how your mistakes is made.


 -No time to try a third recording whith  no mistakes?

[visitor]

Choose the better performance and thus the more accurate representation of your capabilities as a performing artist

[chopincat]

I need to send in two pieces. I'm very happy with the first piece, which I recorded a while ago. The second piece (this piece) is a Beethoven sonata. It's just not as ready as the other piece, but I do need to send it in.

The recording with smaller mistakes mostly has things like finger slips. The recording with bigger mistakes has some two or three measures are just very clearly wrong harmonically. But there's basically only one 2-3 measure block like that,  whereas there's a bunch of finger slips in the other one.

Unfortunately I don't think I'll have time to do another recording.

[chopinlover01]

I've found that when deciding between two hard things, we often (though not always) subconsciously have what we want worked out. So then, imagine that you toss a coin (you can do it physically as well if that pleases you), and heads= recording #1, and tails is recording 2. A senior at my school said something like "When you flip a coin, you know which side you want it to land on.", and I've found that to be very true when deciding between two difficult choices. So, long story short, set it on a coin flip to see if you can tell that way which one you'd prefer to send in.
For what it's worth, I'd personally send in the one that doesn't make you cringe (though obviously a third recording would be best if you can); you more than likely have a good ear (further supported by you having perfect/absolute pitch, or whatever the correct terminology is), and if the mistakes make you cringe, the adjudicators for whatever it is you're auditioning for will probably notice too :/

[amytsuda]

Since it is Beethoven sonata, that's a difficult one. Which sonata? Which 2-3 measures, what wrong chords are you playing and how did you adjust yourself back? Does it demonstrate that you recognized it and recovered your music quickly? How many finger slips on the other one - - 7? 20? More? Does it demonstrate enough that you can play clean Beethoven if you'd like to? Also where in the piece those things happen? Earlier in the piece? Or later in the piece? For example, if you are clinging just 8 measures into the piece, not good, because it sets the low expectation of your judges right there. If you hear tons of sloppy notes in the beginning, not good. Can your teacher listen to them and help you decide?

Ideally, figure out a way to do the recording again. You are such a musical pianist, I want you to proceed!

[chopincat]

Thanks for all the advice everyone! For those who were wondering, the sonata is op. 10 no. 1. This is for acceptance to a summer program, so I have a feeling that the judges will be a little more forgiving of small mistakes and more concerned with my overall abilities. (That could be totally misguided though - let me know if it is!)

Chopinlover01, I thought about the coin thing for a bit and it made me realize that it made more sense to go with the finger slip one. I just feel really uncomfortable with the mistakes in the first one.

I think this makes sense with what amytsuda said as well. I realized most of the finger slips occur in the repeat of exposition - the first exposition and the development are pretty strong, and there are a few more slips in the recapitulation but for the most part it's fine. I think there's probably somewhere between 5 and 10 slips in all, some are more noticeable than others. I showed it to another musician friend of mine and she didn't seem to notice them as much as I did.

I did contact my teacher about it, but she was too busy tonight to get back to me.

So I've uploaded the second recording and will most likely send it in tomorrow. While I wish I had the time to do a third recording, I think this is the right decision. Thanks everyone for the help again!

[pianoplunker]

I've just done two recordings of the same piece for an audition tape. Neither recording is perfect, because the piece just isn't 100% there yet. But I have a deadline, so there's nothing I can really do about that now.

Anyway, in the first recording, I make fewer mistakes. However, the mistakes I do make are very obvious - I cringe when I hear them. In the second recording, I make more mistakes, but they're a bit more subtle - fingers slipping a little bit, and things that you might not necessarily hear unless you knew the piece. Mistakes aside, I think they're about the same artistically.

So my question is, which is a better recording to send in? I wish I could upload them both and ask which sounds better, but unfortunately uploads take a very long time on my computer, so I can't really do that right now.

Use recording technology to fix mistakes, or find someone who can

[chopincat]

Use recording technology to fix mistakes, or find someone who can

People do that?! That's absolutely horrifying. I would never want to be so dishonest. It just seems blatantly unfair and wrong to me. Besides, what if I was accepted into the program due to the fake playing, but then found myself to be an inadequate player once I arrived?

[chopinlover01]

Yes, it's possible, even with basic programs such as Audacity. It's beyond being dishonest IMO, it's also cheating someone else out of the spot you are taking up. They might be better suited than you are. (Not saying this specifically to you, just saying it as an "in general" sort of thing)

[ronde_des_sylphes]

People do that?! That's absolutely horrifying. I would never want to be so dishonest. It just seems blatantly unfair and wrong to me. Besides, what if I was accepted into the program due to the fake playing, but then found myself to be an inadequate player once I arrived?

Very laudable, so I hate to point this out, but you can bet not everybody will be as honest. That's why some places want video+audio, harder to edit convincingly.

[ted]

Last year I took a passage out of one of my long improvisations. I had forgotten to disconnect the phone before I started and it rang. Just how easy it is to seamlessly cut and paste sections in Audacity, once you acquire the tricks, and they're not hard, surprised me. Someone like Gould would go berserk with it these days.

[pianoplunker]

People do that?! That's absolutely horrifying. I would never want to be so dishonest. It just seems blatantly unfair and wrong to me. Besides, what if I was accepted into the program due to the fake playing, but then found myself to be an inadequate player once I arrived?

Yes, People who know the science and art of recording can polish a recording to sound better. I can see how that seems dishonest, but there is a limit to how much can be fixed anyhow. If you want to send in recorded mistakes that is up to you. You can choose between big mistakes and little mistakes. If I had an important recording for an audition I would want the best person possible to help record it.

[chopincat]

Yes, People who know the science and art of recording can polish a recording to sound better. I can see how that seems dishonest, but there is a limit to how much can be fixed anyhow. If you want to send in recorded mistakes that is up to you. You can choose between big mistakes and little mistakes. If I had an important recording for an audition I would want the best person possible to help record it.

It doesn't seem dishonest, it is dishonest. Where even is the art in your playing if you can just edit out the stuff you don't like? It's like autotune.

And it's like what chopinlover01 said. I could potentially be taking a spot away from someone else who was more deserving of it. This is a summer program, it's not going to have an affect on the rest of my life. There is no moral justification for "fixing" my videos.

[pianoplunker]

It doesn't seem dishonest, it is dishonest. Where even is the art in your playing if you can just edit out the stuff you don't like? It's like autotune.

And it's like what chopinlover01 said. I could potentially be taking a spot away from someone else who was more deserving of it. This is a summer program, it's not going to have an affect on the rest of my life. There is no moral justification for "fixing" my videos.

You have a very relevant question regarding recording. I have always felt the art in playing is playing live, for real, either for yourself,someone else, or both.  Recording is dishonest within itself - if you get one perfect recording after 311 takes, is that an honest reflection of the art ? Forget all the special effects and autotune. Just recording a perfect recording after 311 takes is not really saying you know the piece. As for you taking a spot for someone more deserving, imagine if all they do is flip a coin to decide or just quickly crossing off names. That is not dishonest but certainly is not justified either.  All that said, good luck to you and I hope you manage to get into any program you desire. It really does affect your life 

[chopinlover01]

Recording is dishonest within itself

Some varieties of recording are also a better assessment of your playing than a live performance or lesson. Before lessons, we often get everything as good as we can to impress our teachers- performances, this is obviously true. Recording, if done in the learning stages of a piece, shows you exactly what you're doing right and wrong.  You're totally right though about the 300+ takes analogy though- getting a piece "perfect" .0032% of the time (1 divided by 311) you're not playing it perfectly.

[1piano4joe]

Hi chopincat,

A recording was probably already sent in but I was just curious about the two recordings and had some questions.

Mainly, can you account for the different kind of mistakes?

I mean were the two recordings on two different pianos?

Would you say they were recorded at the same tempo?

Possibly, one was recorded after several hours of practice and you were not fresh?

Do you remember if maybe you were more nervous on one than the other?

Do you think a click or two slower tempo on the metronome would have produced better results overall?

Could time of day matter if your not quite awake yet or if it's late at night and your tired?

Again just curious, Joe.

P.S. I find it very interesting that one recording doesn't have the very obvious mistake but many smaller ones and yet somehow, someway, for some reason, a second recording has this obvious mistake and then fewer smaller mistakes. Do I have this right?

P.P.S. Personally, I would choose the more but subtle mistakes and not the fewer obvious mistakes.

[chopincat]

The two recordings were done within 10 minutes of each other, so yes, they were done on the same piano, at the same time of day, and with the same amount of practice done beforehand. I think I was a little more nervous on the first one because I had done a few really unsuccessful recordings before it, whereas with the second one I had done a fairly successful recording immediately before.

They were at pretty much the same tempo. I think the second recording was around three seconds shorter than the first.

It was the first recording that had the really obvious mistake, and the second recording that had some subtle slips. I ended up submitting the second one.