Chopin Ballade 1 measures 102 - 104 fingering

[k_kapp]

Hi all

I am currently learning Chopin Ballade 1. I am trying to play it exactly as everything is written in the sheet music in order to get the most out of the piece, but when I have mastered it properly, I might start getting flexible on some of the specifications in the sheet music (in small ways) to give my own interpretation of the piece.

Anyway, I have a question on measures 102 - 104. You will see there's an octave of G#'s, then the A-C-D# chord in the right hand, and the E-A-C chord in the left. How can one manage to hold down the G#'s while playing those staccato chords (as it's indicated in the music)? I have tried playing the octave of G#'s with my right hand, then playing the E-A-C chord with my left hand, but then I cannot play the A-C-D# chord properly while hold down the G# with my right hand. My hands are relatively small - I can play ninths quite comfortably, as I can play a scale in ninths with one hand, but a tenth I can juuuust reach (can just play it with my fingers on the edges of the white keys). Any advice?

I have actually watched a video of a pianist (don't think he's very famous) playing this part, where they show his fingering, but he seems to mostly jump from the G# octave to the chords, thereby not holding down both the G# while playing the chords, as it's shown in the sheet music.

[k_kapp]

Oh and I forgot to mention: If I play the lower G# with my left hand (as shown in the music) then I cannot play the lower E-A-C chord, since I would have to reach more than a 10th and play notes in between, which is kinda impossible for me.

[gustaaavo]

That's all pedalled (change pedal every 3 beats, raising it for the rests), so it is not necessary to hold the notes. I play it as written (you could play it as octaves if you want of course), holding the right hand melody notes and letting go those of the left hand to play the chord.

I think what's most important to focus on here is the crescendo (beginning (¿mezzo?)forte!)

[k_kapp]

Ok, sure. Will do it like that then. Was just wondering whether there's a trick that I was missing in order to hold all the notes. My music teacher from back in the day used to tell me that a trained ear can actually hear whether or not you are holding down notes even in the presence of pedal

[michael_c]

Ok, sure. Will do it like that then. Was just wondering whether there's a trick that I was missing in order to hold all the notes. My music teacher from back in the day used to tell me that a trained ear can actually hear whether or not you are holding down notes even in the presence of pedal

Luckily for you (and indeed for all pianists), your teacher was wrong. If that were really the case (that it could be possible to hear whether keys are being held down or not when the right pedal is lifting the dampers) it would be impossible to play much of the usual piano repertoire.

For a detailed investigation of this, read what 8-octaves wrote here.

[k_kapp]

Wow, thank you for that link, that was a very interesting read. Just shows the power of intent when playing: If you play something staccato, even with the pedal down, on some subconscious level you still expect it to sound choppy and less melodic, which is why you hear more of the ritardando, crescendo, etc. dynamic effects when playing legato with pedal down.

On that note, that same teacher also always told me to think of certain things when playing certain exercises or pieces. For example, when playing a scale, she told me to think of a horizontal straight line, since (in her opinion) it was better for scales to sound clean and consistent, instead of varying in tempo or dynamic. I thought it was quite decent that she constantly reminded me that playing piano is much, much more than just the physical pressing of keys (although I never did see it as just a physical experience).

But then again: Why are those G#'s in measures 102 - 104, for example, written as dotted half-notes (minims), instead of quarter notes? Wouldn't the pedal specification at that part be enough? Is it perhaps just to emphasize that those G#'s are carrying the melody, and that they should be heard throughout?

[diomedes]

I'm starting this one today, glancing at it and trying to decode on my intuitive reaction as if i had not read this thread, i'd possibly settle with the following:

Right hand legato is no  issue, which is the top part so it occupies the greater part of what is audible. The left hand if i really try hard i can reach and hold/connect the notes. I think i'd intuitively pass on the discomfort and not connect the left hand entirely.

When i finish learning the whole thing i'll see where things take me, shouldn't take long, maybe i'll let you know how much changes.

[michael_c]

But then again: Why are those G#'s in measures 102 - 104, for example, written as dotted half-notes (minims), instead of quarter notes? Wouldn't the pedal specification at that part be enough? Is it perhaps just to emphasize that those G#'s are carrying the melody, and that they should be heard throughout?

Precisely that.

[k_kapp]

michael_c:
Thank you for your insight. Happy to go forward without worrying about parts I previously felt I couldn't play (because I have smallish hands, haha).

diomedes:
Up until about two weeks ago, I haven't touched a piano in about 18 months, because I am a student (not a music student) and it's obviously next to impossible to transport my piano to the student accommodation where I live. My hands are therefore probably not as flexible as they have always been, so maybe with time I could reach all the notes, but I am not willing to wait that long, or to risk an injury by stretching my hands too much. Luckily, I learnt from this thread that such attempts are not strictly necessary.
It would be interesting to see whether you decide to play all the notes in the end. Let me know what you decide on when you get to that.