Is physical pianistic stamina a thing with proper technique?

[chopinlover01]

So, I keep hearing from all these people (including many on this website) that "Oh, you get tired? That's a result of bad technique; if you had better technique, it wouldn't be tiring.
Now, there's probably plenty to be said for always improving one's technique, but surely it still takes energy to play things like the Chopin etudes as a set (or even just certain ones without getting tired; 10/1, 10/2, 10/4, 10/7, 25/6, 25/10, and 25/11).
Where is the definitive line (if there even is one) between pure technique and raw stamina?
Thanks in advance

[pover]

Sorry I'm not answering your question (since I'm not entirely sure myself, but am also interested in knowing the answer). But yesterday I was watching an interview with Rubinstein at 90, and he said the phrase you quoted in your signature, so I just thought it was a nice coincidence

[mjames]

The only times I've actually felt physically tired was when I was playing pieces that were beyond my level, and i could physically feel that I was straining myself. So I do think that there's a lot of "truth to if you have good technique, you won't feel physical exhaustion." Now can you still feel tired after playing stuff you're in complete control of? Of course! But i don't (in my case) think it's physical exhaustion, but mental exhaustion. To me playing piano is much more of a mental effort than it is a physical one. Same reason why lifting weights won't really do much for you, or improving your stamina through running wont really do anything for your concentration at the piano. Mental fortitude is the thing that matters, and that's what gets you "tired."

However this is just a summary of my experiences when it comes to "stamina" and playing piano. Not sure if it's the same with everyone.

[pover]

I agree with mjames, in that a lot of the fatigue is mental fatigue (how sometimes at the end of a long practice session you start making mistakes - that's why you should have short practice session, for example).

Another this is that in general, in my opinion, technical challenges are just things you need to learn to do without tension. Pretty much all technical problems are caused by tension, so if you start feeling tired, that means you're playing the piece with tension. The essence of working on something and trying to learn it is trying to learn to do it while being relaxed. even with the most tiring pieces like Chopin's op.25/12, the point of it is (IMO) learning to do it without getting tired by finding correct movements or moments of relaxation.

That's my take on it, anyway

[ted]

Speaking purely for myself I doubt I could record long, intense improvisations if I did not maintain my health and fitness. Having said that though, I find the endurance in question is definitely more mental and neural than physical. I never attempt to stretch myself physically during an improvisation, it produces inferior idea flow. The place to do that is in exclusively technical practice, mostly at my practice clavier, and not too strenuously either at my age.

Then again, I concede my technique is probably far from "proper", and might require more energy than if I had been trained.

[faulty_damper]

In my technique, physical effortlessness is the goal in music-making.  At no point should I be muscularly strained.  If I am, then I know the movements are not correct so I experiment to find the right combination of movements to make it effortless.  This strategy is incredibly easy because I get immediate feedback, which is entirely missing from other learning strategies which prioritize learning the music first at the expense of never learning how to play the piano.

10/1, 10/2, 10/4, 10/7, 25/6, 25/10, and 25/11

These pieces you mention, none of which require very much physical effort, are good technical puzzles, some more difficult to piece together than others because the movements are less obvious or are obscure.  E.g. the movements for 10/2 are not likely to be discovered without knowing how the playing apparatus works. The movements are incredibly intricate, cycling through a number of them in very short succession.  Miss one and strain immediate builds.

None of what I've said are absolute necessities to play.  Many number of pianists get by using brute force using the least efficient and inelegant movements.  That kind of playing requires constant and incessant practice or else performance falls apart.  That's why virtually all competitors practice endless hours to prepare for competitions, because they must make up for their lack of technique with brute force and stamina.

[indianajo]

I'm glad to hear we have so many responders who have conquered the mind over matter barrier.
Yes, I get tired. No, my piano teacher stopped giving me tips on posture etc at a certain point.  So I imagine my technique is adequate.  What I do, is practice about double the time that I ever intend to perform.  I also work out generally, combining the aerobic regime I learned from Dr Cooper and the US Army, and after age 60 some muscle building/stretching exercises I learned on a Pilates TV program run by Margaret Richard.
I have no regular access to a grand piano, so playing on the Baldwin grand in the next county that is only a 60-110 minute bus ride away (each way), wears me out particularly fast. I start noticing fatigue at about 30 minutes on that piano.  Nor did I buy the heavy action Steinway 44 console I tried out in 1982, imagining the action as suitable for working up to playing grands, which are out of my economic and social class generally.  Even on my light action Sohmer 39 console, practicing over 60 minutes has caused tendon pain in my right thumb, so more stengthening exercises will not be in the cards. 
 I might point out, my physique was not inherited from Europeans, Africans, or south Asians.  So my body is much more desined for endurance feats (running deer or seal to exhaustion) than feats of strength (plowing with animals, reefing the sails, edged weapon combat) common among the conquerers of this New World.