In Memoriam Mr. Rusty by Michael Sayers

[michael_sayers]

Hi Everyone,

In Memoriam Mr. Rusty is notated sans tempi, dynamics, pedaling and phrasing, leaving such matters to be determined by the pianist.  Thanks to Felix Buchmann for the superb recording!

And in case anyone "out there" on the W.W.W. gets any clever ideas, this work already is deposited with the U.S. copyright office.


Mvh,
Michael

[dogperson]

Hi Michael and I think the question to other composers, as well

Is a composition without tempo, dynamics and pedaling a 'composition' in terms of musical definition?   Interesting concept of leaving it to the pianist, but without all elements, not only does it seem to be incomplete as a composition but the author then does not imprint his concepts into the music.  Think about Chopin:  would a nocturne be complete without meter, phrasing, dynamics, or would it historically be labeled an 'non-finished work'  or a 'fragment'?

My vote from the peanut gallery of non-composers, is that all elements are needed.  As a  composer, would you really want your work to be played without your direction in how you envision the music?  i just don't understand the free-form concept.

[ted]

Simple statements of deep sentiment are actually harder to create than complexity. I find this one rather attractive.

[j_menz]

Is a composition without tempo, dynamics and pedaling a 'composition' in terms of musical definition?   

Was Bach a composer? 

[michael_sayers]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the replies.

One thing I've noticed with music notation is that when less is provided then pianists often come up with varied ideas which are as good or better than my own, so it seems worthwhile to now take this to the extreme and hear the results.


Mvh,
Michael

[quantum]

With regard to notated compositions, I believe that the score only represents 50% of the work, with the remaining 50% originating in the mind of the performer. 

Is a composition without tempo, dynamics and pedaling a 'composition' in terms of musical definition?   

IMO, a composition is whatever a composer chooses to define it as.  Compositions are not to be confined to set requirements that deem it proper in the eyes of some standardization committee.  In this particular case, I would argue that the composers direction to leave specific elements to the performer is a score direction in itself - in doing so the score has in fact defined tempi, dynamics, pedaling and phrasing. 

[...] would a nocturne be complete without meter, phrasing, dynamics, or would it historically be labeled an 'non-finished work'  or a 'fragment'?

One should be careful to differentiate between the presence of a score notation versus the presence of the element within actual music. 

As a  composer, would you really want your work to be played without your direction in how you envision the music?

With regards to my own work, a resounding yes!

[michael_sayers]

Hi Everyone,

I don't think it makes sense to be critical of Dogperson in this discussion.  It is a normal expectation with romantic style music to have a fair bit of interpretive detail in a score.  Especially with a great composer [which I am not, being just a humble amateur], the more one can know about the composer's own ideas on the performance of the music, the better.

There are some issues that I keep running into, and mostly connected with pianists thinking that whatever is in the score is the way the music has to be performed, and this is based on the idea of "the composer's intentions" - and this thinking tends to be applied in a prohibitive manner.

For instance, a passage may be marked to crescendo from f to fff, and a pianist might want to pull back somewhere along the way.  But if the score doesn't indicate to do this, then it is considered prohibited.  And if it is indicated, then it always happens.  And it is cumbersome to try and overlay several different interpretations of a composition onto a score - the pull back might only make sense if the ending, pages later, is played differently, et c.

Since it seems fairly clear what dynamics are appropriate overall, and since tempo is so personal - as is pedaling - and, again, these things can be different for varied interpretations, the simplest solution is just to leave all interpretive indications out.

I would hope that pianists would even be willing to rewrite the music - at least a bit - to suit their interpretive instincts.

I like to be surprised with good ideas that I could not on my own have imagined.

Thanks again everyone for listening.


Mvh,
Michael

[alistaircrane4]

Michael,

[alistaircrane4]

Michael,

          You do not have to worry about copyrighting your works. I am sorry to tell you but it would be a detriment to anyone who tried to pass this.....thing.....off as their own. If anyone believed someone else wrote it I'm sure they would be chastised and the piece labeled as "boring" "uncreative" "naive"or "lacking substance." Why you continue to litter this forum with these dreadful recordings and menial compositions belittles the other people on this site who more deserve attention than yourself. I thought you said we would be rid of you for a few months yet you still blight this forum daily. Please desist. 

[michael_sayers]

Michael,

          You do not have to worry about copyrighting your works. I am sorry to tell you but it would be a detriment to anyone who tried to pass this.....thing.....off as their own. If anyone believed someone else wrote it I'm sure they would be chastised and the piece labeled as "boring" "uncreative" "naive"or "lacking substance." Why you continue to litter this forum with these dreadful recordings and menial compositions belittles the other people on this site who more deserve attention than yourself. I thought you said we would be rid of you for a few months yet you still blight this forum daily. Please desist.  

Hi Alistaircrane4,

As a sombre and very introspective piano miniature, I think In Memoriam Mr. Rusty is quite good.  It definitely isn't concert music, or music with anything to prove either by the pianist or the composer.

The pianist, by the way, is Felix Buchmann, who is a very accomplished pianist as one can see by watching his many YouTube videos.

The concern about copyright is that if I spend time creating something, and also with the laborious task of entering it into Finale, why would I want to allow someone else to potentially take credit for the effort?  It isn't about whether or not anyone would want to do that, but one can't predict what a composer in some circumstances would want to do - and some composers, when deadlines are pressing and the fountain of inspiration is lacking, look around for non-copyrighted material even at websites such as Piano Street, or so I have read.  I doubt the infringement would be in the guise of a piano arrangement or anything formally identical - most likely it would make use of thematic material for a quite different composition.  As a result, all material I issue in terms of scores and recordings is first deposited with the U.S. copyright office.

I don't see any issue with me posting recordings to these forums.  People post recordings at Piano Street all the time - in fact, you just posted a recording of Dobrzynski's music to the Repertoire forum - and opinions with responses can be diverse.


Mvh,
Michael

[alistaircrane4]

Oh yes I did post a recording but listen to that then listen to your recordings. Note the differences. Case closed.

[michael_sayers]

Oh yes I did post a recording but listen to that then listen to your recordings. Note the differences. Case closed.

Hi Alistaircrane4,

This isn't one of my recordings.  It was done by Felix Buchmann, who also is the pianist.


Mvh,
Michael

[michael_sayers]

Oh yes I did post a recording but listen to that then listen to your recordings. Note the differences. Case closed.

Hi Alistaircrane4,

Do you normally fault pianists here for making home recordings, as Felix Buchmann did in this instance rather than hire a studio or a hall?


Mvh,
Michael