Kenneth Hamilton's lecture on Franz Liszt's piano music and its variants

[michael_sayers]

Hi Everyone,

This is a superb lecture on the subject.

Mvh,
Michael

[pianoman53]

Is it really? What he says is, basically, that Liszt not always played according to score, and that he changed stuff...?

[michael_sayers]

Is it really? What he says is, basically, that Liszt not always played according to score, and that he changed stuff...?

Hi pianoman53,

Indeed this is true.  Liszt seems to have been for the most part quite compulsive in that way, and not only with his own music!


Mvh,
Michael

[pianoman53]

And since that's all he says (and it's far from a secret), I would argue about the level of interest....

[michael_sayers]

And since that's all he says (and it's far from a secret), I would argue about the level of interest....

Hi Pianoman53,

I think it is good to know how the 19th century composers wanted and expected for their piano music to be performed.


Mvh,
Michael

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Interesting lecture. I have to say that I've heard the many variants for pupils ascribed in a related, but different, way to the one dismissed during the video - the version I heard, which sounds more plausible, is not that variant A was for pianist X because he couldn't play passage Z, but that variant A was for pianist X because variant A suited his technical strengths more than passage Z ie Liszt was purposely writing variants to showcase individual pupils' particular gifts.

[michael_sayers]

Interesting lecture. I have to say that I've heard the many variants for pupils ascribed in a related, but different, way to the one dismissed during the video - the version I heard, which sounds more plausible, is not that variant A was for pianist X because he couldn't play passage Z, but that variant A was for pianist X because variant A suited his technical strengths more than passage Z ie Liszt was purposely writing variants to showcase individual pupils' particular gifts.

Hi Ronde_des_sylphes,

One could suggest similar things about the Chopin variants.  For instance, with the E-flat/E-natural controversy of the Chopin Prelude in C Minor, the E-flat notated in a student's copy may have been to accommodate a student who found the E-natural to be too garish - and this is assuming that the accidental is in Chopin's hand.

Rachmaninoff, in his Variations on a Theme of Chopin Op. 22 on that Prelude, has the E-natural in the Thema, as does Busoni in his Variations and Fugue in Free Form [also an Op. 22] on the C Minor Prelude.

Back to Liszt, he didn't perform his music according to the published editions.  Though it isn't mentioned in the Kenneth Hamilton lecture, something well worth looking at are the Liszt-Siloti editions which are based on hearing Liszt's performances of the compositions.

And there are such things as this piano roll by a Liszt student which is based on having heard Liszt perform the work:

The Kenneth Hamilton lecture only scratches the surface.  One can only do so much in a 45 minute lecture.


Mvh,
Michael

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I think the music world would have a rather different, more pragmatic, attitude to Urtextisation if more pianists were also composers. The separation of the two disciplines (why?) has fed literalism.

[j_menz]

Though it isn't mentioned in the Kenneth Hamilton lecture, something well worth looking at are the Liszt-Siloti editions which are based on hearing Liszt's performances of the compositions.

And that's quite an oversight.

Siloti was a pupil of Liszt, and these few editions were produced not just based on hearing Liszt play but actively in collaboration with Liszt as an attempt to give a true reflection of his performance of them. Any serious player of Liszt's music ignores them at their peril.

[michael_sayers]

I wouldn't want you all to miss the amazing image I posted in this thread - it is the greatest and most inspiring photo of a grand piano I ever have seen:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=58438.0


Mvh,
Michael