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Topic: Beethoven 109  (Read 1888 times)

Offline gvans

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Beethoven 109
on: May 31, 2015, 05:03:53 PM
One of LVB's final three sonatas, the by-then completely deaf composer dedicated this lyrical and often inward-searching work to Maximiliane Brentano, daughter of Antonie Brentano, the woman whom many scholars--most notably, Maynard Solomon, whose exhaustive study of the matter leaves, really, little doubt--consider Beethoven's Immortal Beloved. What all this means vis a vis the music is hard to say.

Written in 1820, many years passed since the composer cut things off with one of the few women who seemed willing to put up with him and who truly loved him. Elements of pathos and wistful sadness permeate the work, underscored by the overall sunny character of E Major (with plentiful dashes of E minor and other keys remote and close).

One can analyze the work in all sorts of ways. The opening movement, for example, in sonata allegro form, uses marked concision in its use of the idiom. The opening theme lasts only eight bars before the Adagio second theme appears. Although the opening two movements are wonderful, the final movement, a theme with six variations, has been considered by some pianists as Beethoven's ultimate composition. Andras Schiff pronounces it his favorite movement in the 32 sonatas, no small accolade.

Some consider the work one of the more difficult of Beethoven's sonatas; I did my best to do it justice. My first foray into Late Beethoven, I did drop a few notes here and there, especially in the Prestissimo, and hope to get all that corrected by concert time later in June. But voila. Thanks for listening.

Note: I'm having trouble getting the movements up in the right order. Will try to post the Theme and Var 1/2 in a separate post.

 

Offline gvans

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Re: Beethoven 109
Reply #1 on: May 31, 2015, 05:21:16 PM
Below appears the third movement theme and variations 1/2. My apologies for the confusion.

Offline 28843253

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Re: Beethoven 109
Reply #2 on: June 01, 2015, 04:25:12 PM
Doing the 110 myself, great stuff man.

Offline cbreemer

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Re: Beethoven 109
Reply #3 on: June 03, 2015, 08:45:50 PM
I'm also working intermittently on this sonata, and I am with Schiff in finding the variations to contain Beethoven's most breathtakingly beautiful, magical and exalted piano music. So far I listened to these only (why did you cut them up in separate tracks ?)

My overwhelming impression is that you are rather uniformly loud. A sign of strain, maybe ? There are quite a number of slips/misreadings, and more important, also some problems of tempo and rhythm. As for rhythm, I found the middle section of var.II distorted, the RH and LH do not alternate properly. And the last-but-2 bars of the first and final variations (those with the arpeggios) are not counted properly, or at the very least rushed. IMO these are the two most poignant bars, and I'd take ample time over them. Tempo-wise, I think vars. 3 and 5 are rather too slow to make their impact. Granted, no. 5 is quite a beast to play up tempo, so easier said than done. That great climax with the trills and 32ths is not bad at all, but rather strained, and it stays almost uniformly loud until suddenly the cantabile kicks in again. I think that transition could be prepared much better.

It's quite some criticism, sorry... but this magnificent Sonata is worth a bit more time. I think once you get to know it better, and can relax more, the impact of your performance will drastically improve. I hope this helps !

Offline rachfan

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Re: Beethoven 109
Reply #4 on: June 07, 2015, 12:18:36 AM
Hi gvans,

Dynamic changes are the norm of Op. 109, but I'm confident that careful reading during practice will bring out the necessary shadings and effects required. Tempos and any rhythmic flaws can be improved with some metronome work.  I imagine that at this stage you're actively focusing on putting more polish on your rendition.  Hopefully you can play this up to your performance standard quite soon.  Keep up the good work!

David   
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline gvans

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Re: Beethoven 109
Reply #5 on: June 14, 2015, 04:32:56 PM
Thank you, cbreemer, for listening and for your comments. Yes, one can and should alway strive to increase dynamic range, and I have been doing so in my rehearsals. Your other suggestions were also easily integrated. I look forward to your own polished recording of 109, I'm sure you'll do much better than I.

I disagree, however, with your comments regarding the tempos of the fugues in Var. 3 and 5. Tempos are an individual choice, and too rapid a pace can lose or blur much polyphony, at least in my hands. I'll let the tempos increase as they will, given accuracy concerns and clarity, thank you very much.

Thanks, rachfan, for giving the other movements a listen. I put most of my focus toward performance, not recordings, but I find recordings a useful way to get ready for a concert. Unfortunately, set dates for concerts have a way of marching toward a musician, ready or not.

Ciao!

Offline cbreemer

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Re: Beethoven 109
Reply #6 on: June 14, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
Thank you, cbreemer, for listening and for your comments. Yes, one can and should alway strive to increase dynamic range, and I have been doing so in my rehearsals. Your other suggestions were also easily integrated. I look forward to your own polished recording of 109, I'm sure you'll do much better than I.
With the aid of a couple dozen of cuts, maybe ;-) Anyway I am a long way still from seriously tackling this sonata. It is not to be underestimated.

I disagree, however, with your comments regarding the tempos of the fugues in Var. 3 and 5. Tempos are an individual choice, and too rapid a pace can lose or blur much polyphony, at least in my hands. I'll let the tempos increase as they will, given accuracy concerns and clarity, thank you very much.
Yeah makes sense. Of course these choices are personal. I love driving fugues but not at the expense of clarity.

Offline le_poete_mourant

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Re: Beethoven 109
Reply #7 on: June 15, 2015, 08:39:49 AM
The theme of the third movement is really a sarabande, don't you think? I feel that you feel the second beats but it's often a bit too obvious for me. Certain notes stick out and so there is a sense of unease for me. It is well-executed but I find it could use a certain tranquility or transcendence. I would dial back the tempo a bit and I think that would help in the theme and first variation. Often repeated notes sound too similar. I agree with cbreemer that more dynamic range is necessary, but perhaps a good deal of this has to do with a variety of touch. I would try to explore this as well. It is also quite possibly due to your recording setup as well.

Var. 3 needs to be faster; I feel like you are holding back. There are also parts where even in this conservative tempo it feels to be dragging. Var. 4 doesn't have a tempo problem so much as a flow problem; it feels held back, cautious, too careful and respectful. Var. 5 also has a tempo problem but the good news is that the gestures and dynamic sensibilities are there in this. You are right that tempos are personal choices, but I agree with cbreemer -- your tempos are too slow; there can be variations but you need to meet the minimum!
var. 6 You manage the trills very commendably!

My overall comment with the Prestissimo is that it needs metronome work. There is a feeling of instability that I think needs to be addressed at a micro level first, but when you take it to a macro level really it should be in a feeling of 1, don't you agree? f

The first movement is, by far, your most successful. Here I think also, though, there needs to be a sense of longer line and direction in the phrase to the end.

Offline gvans

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Re: Beethoven 109
Reply #8 on: June 16, 2015, 03:35:06 PM
Thanks for listening and for your comments, le_poete_mourant. Your ideas make perfect sense, from the sarabande comment to feeling the prestissimo as one beat per measure, to the longer lines needed throughout. Hopefully I'll put your suggestions into practice by a Father's Day concert this Sunday.

I'm giving a talk before each piece (Mozart, Beethoven, Debussy) about their fathers...three strange guys, for sure. Beethoven's hard-drinking, abusive dad, Mozart's entrepeneurial showman father (reminds me of pushy parents of modern Hollywood kids), and Debussy's imprisoned revolutionary pop (he chose the wrong side in an 1870 revolt) make quite a trio.

Anyhow, good to hear from you after quite an hiatus!
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