square fermata in Messiaen

[omccreary]

I'm working on several of the Messiaen preludes.

In "Chant d'extase dans un paysage triste," there are some square fermatas (in the "un peu plus vif" section).

I don't recall ever seeing a square fermata. What does it mean?

I think it might mean longer than usual... if so, how is that to be interpreted in this case, where the fermata is over an eighth note (r.h.) and a sixteenth note (l.h.), played together. A fermata usually lengthens a long note, not a short note, and a a fermata might mean to stretch the note to double or perhaps triple its length. In this case, does this really mean that the notes should be really stretched out, as if they were, say, a doubled/tripled half-note? Or is the fermata to be understood in the context of an eighth/sixteenth note tempo, so that it amounts to a doubled/tripled eighth/sixteenth note?  (I understand that a fermata shouldn't normally be timed. I'm just trying to get the idea across.)

Thanks for any information or suggestions.

[j_menz]

Some 20th century and later composers use different shaped fermatas to indicate different hold lengths. It's not standard usage, and I'm not even sure that they are consistent amongst themselves. The usage should be indicated in the preface to the edition, or as a footnote to it's first use (in the volume, not necessarily the piece you're playing).

[visitor]

Some 20th century and later composers use different shaped fermatas to indicate different hold lengths. It's not standard usage, and I'm not even sure that they are consistent amongst themselves...

And here us yet another example /benefit of why I like learning Percy Grainger's music.  He is so ultra specific at times that or he leaves little doubt as to what he  wants done.

What dont like? -  Drawback- see above benefit 

[michael_sayers]

Hi Omccreary,

A square fermata indicates a longer-than-usual hold.


Mvh,
Michael

[michael_sayers]

And here us yet another example /benefit of why I like learning Percy Grainger's music.  He is so ultra specific at times that or he leaves little doubt as to what he  wants done.

What dont like? -  Drawback- see above benefit 

Hi Visitor,

It isn't always obvious what Percy Grainger wants done - a lot of what he requests is highly subjective and, in the end, can result in confusion if one tries to figure out a way to make all of the notation work.  Percy Grainger's scores are over-notated, and his piano music would, I suspect, be much more successful if the notation were to be reduced.


Mvh,
Michael

[j_menz]

And here us yet another example /benefit of why I like learning Percy Grainger's music.  He is so ultra specific at times that or he leaves little doubt as to what he  wants done.

What dont like? -  Drawback- see above benefit 

I find his scores (or, rather their copious annotations)  a bit like trying to read two novels simultaneously with the music. Novels written by your mother. About your failings and how to address them.

Rather like being inside Percy's own head really. Not pretty.

[michael_sayers]

I find his scores (or, rather their copious annotations)  a bit like trying to read two novels simultaneously with the music. Novels written by your mother. About your failings and how to address them.

Rather like being inside Percy's own head really. Not pretty.

Someone needs to produce editions of his piano music that are more practical.


Mvh,
Michael

[visitor]

agreed. like i said, what i like is also what i hate about PG.   

[michael_sayers]

agreed. like i said, what i like is also what i hate about PG.   

Once the copyright expires, anyone will be able to produce those editions.


Mvh,
Michael

[omccreary]

Thanks.