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Topic: Chopin's Scherzos  (Read 2022 times)

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Chopin's Scherzos
on: June 04, 2015, 11:56:19 PM
I pretty much mastered Chopin's Nocturnes, and I'm tackling some of Chopin's Etudes (they're freaking hard!) Now I'm starting his Scherzos. I know they're hard as crap, but I'm willing to give a try. So which one should I start with, and can you give me some advice about his Scherzos?
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Offline chopinlover01

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #1 on: June 05, 2015, 12:43:37 AM
Going from the Etudes to the scherzos is certainly a jump, but it certainly seems to me to be the most logical one, as far as going to smaller works (nocturnes, etudes, preludes, etc) to the larger ones (Scherzi, ballades, some of the polonaises, etc).
You're best off going in order. The B minor is much easier than it looks, though the coda can be a bit rough.
The B flat minor wouldn't be too too bad either. There are some hard parts, but there's more variety than the ABA format of the B minor.
Just my .02 cents.

Offline diomedes

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #2 on: June 05, 2015, 02:28:59 AM
Entirely depends on which etudes you're talking about and what standards you're planning to meet when you term something as being "learned".

I'm currently working though the Scherzi and Ballades, performed the 1st and 3rd scherzo last weekend actually. 2nd one is most approachable, but has some demanding parts, You'd likely enjoy learning it. 1st one sounds incredible when played well, but you need to be very experienced i find to manage it. Relatively few notes to learn in comparison, but it sounds like there are many, and you need remarkable control at high velocity. 3rd one is more demanding. I have yet to approach the 4th one yet. They make a fine recital group all of them, future project i sometimes think about.
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Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #3 on: June 05, 2015, 03:12:14 AM
The Etudes to the Scherzi isn't really a big jump. Also, I've played the harder nocturnes (Op.48 No.1, Op.62 No.2, etc.) and they take a lot to learn. There are Etudes harder than the Scherzi IMO, like Op. 10 No.2 or Op.25 No.6, but they're much shorter.

The b-flat minor Scherzo is my favorite, so I could start with that. I could work on two Scherzi at once, which I commonly do. At one time, I was learning 15 nocturnes at once.

And btw, it's Scherzi, not scherzos. Chopin would be mad at you, Chopinlover01 :)
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Offline j_menz

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #4 on: June 05, 2015, 03:23:36 AM
And btw, it's Scherzi, not scherzos. Chopin would be mad at you, Chopinlover01 :)

Chopinlover may just have being polite, since you initiated the usage in the topic title.

Oh, and both are correct usage.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #5 on: June 05, 2015, 03:31:59 AM
ik but still
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Offline chopinlover01

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #6 on: June 05, 2015, 05:56:50 AM
Ah. My apologies for incorrect grammar; scherzi is what I usually use, so I should be grammatically consistent.
That said, you did "screw it up" in your thread title, so I don't feel too bad  ::)
For the nocturnes, working on a bunch is quite different (in my experience) than playing two scherzi. The nocturnes, while not a walk in the park, are not near the level of intensity the scherzi are. Though, I do have to applaud you for learning 15(?!) nocturnes at once, if that really is true.
As Diomedes noted, it is dependent as well to what standard you wish them to be learned, as well as what etudes you've learned in the past.

Offline maxy

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #7 on: June 10, 2015, 08:57:40 PM
15 nocturnes at once? You should not have any problem to play the 4 scherzi at once!  :P

Which nocturnes did you enjoy the most?

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #8 on: June 11, 2015, 03:31:06 AM
maxi

I played, wait for it:

Op.9 No.1
Op.9 No.2
Op.9 No.3
Op.15 No.1
Op.15 No.3
Op.27 No.1
Op.27 No.2
Op.32 No.2
Op.48 No.1
Op.48 No.2
Op.55 No.1
Op.55 No.2
Op.72 No.1
Posthmous Nocturne c# minor
Posthmous Nocturne c minor

I enjoyed basically all of them. Nocturnes are the best Chopin!

I think some of the Scherzi would be beyond my will tho. Some of the eighth notes go above the 400 BPM, which is, IMO, impossible. The first and second Scherzi are slower, but they're also really complicated, also IMO.
I made an account and hadn't used it in a year. Welcome back, kevon.

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #9 on: September 20, 2015, 05:25:52 PM
Entirely depends on which etudes you're talking about and what standards you're planning to meet when you term something as being "learned".

I'm currently working though the Scherzi and Ballades, performed the 1st and 3rd scherzo last weekend actually. 2nd one is most approachable, but has some demanding parts, You'd likely enjoy learning it. 1st one sounds incredible when played well, but you need to be very experienced i find to manage it. Relatively few notes to learn in comparison, but it sounds like there are many, and you need remarkable control at high velocity. 3rd one is more demanding. I have yet to approach the 4th one yet. They make a fine recital group all of them, future project i sometimes think about.
looking back, pretty soon after that, i gave up the 1st scherzo because i dint want to waste ink
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Offline diomedes

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #10 on: September 20, 2015, 05:49:41 PM
Just print the first few pages, the middle part and coda. Memorize the small changes on repeats. Its a 5 page piece.
Beethoven-Alkan, concerto 3
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Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #11 on: September 20, 2015, 06:04:05 PM
Just print the first few pages, the middle part and coda. Memorize the small changes on repeats. Its a 5 page piece.
oh yeah that does make sense. the full scherzo is 16 pages urtextwise. I'm that person who saves everything
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Offline symphonicdance

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #12 on: September 21, 2015, 12:42:17 AM
On the UK diploma exam syllabus,  Ballade No 3 belongs to the associate level, while the other 3 ballades, the 4 scherzi and the etudes Opp 10 & 25 belong to licentitiate level.

Both his ballades and scherzi are musically and technically demanding, though the ballades will deem to be more story telling.

Good analysis and planning of playing any ballade or scherzo is required.  Themes / sections get repeated, and the player ought to think and play each time (slightly) differently.  This is from a masterclass.

Good luck!

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #13 on: September 21, 2015, 01:27:50 AM
On the UK diploma exam syllabus,  Ballade No 3 belongs to the associate level, while the other 3 ballades, the 4 scherzi and the etudes Opp 10 & 25 belong to licentitiate level.

Both his ballades and scherzi are musically and technically demanding, though the ballades will deem to be more story telling.

Good analysis and planning of playing any ballade or scherzo is required.  Themes / sections get repeated, and the player ought to think and play each time (slightly) differently.  This is from a masterclass.

Good luck!
wait all of the Op.10 and Op.25?

i m guessing the a level is below the l level. the second scherzo should be in the a level. IMO, it should be

2s
1s
3s
3b
2b
4s
1b
4b
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Offline symphonicdance

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #14 on: September 21, 2015, 06:37:57 AM
The Licentitate diploma syllabus:

- any two contrasting etudes from the same opus set of Op. 10 and Op. 25,
- any of the 4 scherzi
- ballade no 1, 2 or 4

amongst other Chopin and non-Chopin works.

The 3rd ballade is the easiest amongst the 8 ballades and scherzi in that sense.

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: Chopin's Scherzos
Reply #15 on: September 21, 2015, 10:50:14 PM
The Licentitate diploma syllabus:

- any two contrasting etudes from the same opus set of Op. 10 and Op. 25,
- any of the 4 scherzi
- ballade no 1, 2 or 4

amongst other Chopin and non-Chopin works.

The 3rd ballade is the easiest amongst the 8 ballades and scherzi in that sense.
nah, i think the second scherzo is a bit easier. the first has lots of repeats, but it's very demanding. the third is much harder than it sounds, and most people play it too fast, and the second ballade isn't too difficult overall. if you average the whole song out, it's probably easier than Chopin's nocturnes
I made an account and hadn't used it in a year. Welcome back, kevon.
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