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Topic: Learning new pieces while watching tv?  (Read 2717 times)

Offline eve93

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Learning new pieces while watching tv?
on: June 10, 2015, 12:06:53 PM
Hello, I have to make a confession. I know this is going to sound weird, but I often get bored if I have to learn new pieces. I find the process very mechanical. So I often watch the tv while I let my hands get used to the fingering.

I was wondering if I was the only weirdo who did that, or if there are other people who do the same thing. And what you might suggest not to get to bored.

Thanks for reading my post!

ps: When I play pieces I have already learned, I off course never put the tv on.

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #1 on: June 10, 2015, 12:35:10 PM
 :D  :D You must be talented if you can watch tv and learn a new piece at the same time! I need to concentrate when I am learning a new piece and I do not even daydream. On the other hand I do not play pieces I do not like so I could not be bored anyway ;D
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline stevensk

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #2 on: June 10, 2015, 02:43:27 PM

I exercise different parts of pieces while watching tv. I do this 3-4 hours per night.

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #3 on: June 11, 2015, 01:32:20 AM
I watch tv all the time while practicing...  I feel like I learn better that way..  splitting my concentration between the tv and whatever I am playing allows me to develop that "auto-pilot" type mode.   I also read books sometimes while I practice...  novels usually.  Once in a while I will even play chess with my daughter during a session...of course,   I tell her where to move my pieces. It's tough but it really helps me at work.   People are always walking up to the piano and talking to me--making requests--or just asking me where the restroom is.   The "auto-pilot" mode allows my fingers to keep on going while I am talking.   

It also makes the hours of practice go by much quicker.  I like to watch comedies.. how bout you?

you may be a weirdo...lol...but you are not the only one   ;D


Offline yadeehoo

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #4 on: June 15, 2015, 01:12:03 AM
I like to play Jenga in one hand, and practice on the other. If I lose a game, I just break the piano and get a new one. Piano is so boring, I wish the nazis didn't force me to learn it
Horowitz - Danse Macabre / Carmen variatons
Chopin - Polonaise in A flat Major + Etudes
Liszt - Liebestraum #3
Beethoven - Moonlight 3rd movement

WORK IN PROGRESS

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #5 on: June 16, 2015, 08:24:08 PM
 People are always walking up to the piano and talking to me--making requests--or just asking me where the restroom is. 


That is rude. Some people seem like if they grew up in a jungle. No good manners at all.
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline Bob

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #6 on: June 17, 2015, 02:12:55 AM
Works with technique.  Easier to extend repetitions once it's in the hands.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #7 on: June 17, 2015, 03:38:11 AM
That is rude. Some people seem like if they grew up in a jungle. No good manners at all.

yes it's terribly rude...lol...but sometimes they also come up to the piano and put money in the jar so I try to be as polite as possible.  I'm sure Valentina doesn't have to put up with that crap...
 :(

Offline michael_sayers

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #8 on: June 17, 2015, 09:59:51 AM
yes it's terribly rude...lol...but sometimes they also come up to the piano and put money in the jar so I try to be as polite as possible.  I'm sure Valentina doesn't have to put up with that crap...
 :(

I've spoken to pianists in varied circumstances but always at an appropriate time.


Mvh,
Michael

Offline stevensk

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #9 on: June 17, 2015, 10:11:02 AM
That is rude. Some people seem like if they grew up in a jungle. No good manners at all.


Many years back I had a small Chopin recital in a church. In the middle of a piece I felt knockings at my back and an older lady asked me whith a low voice if I could stay and drink some coffe whith them afterwards. ;D

Offline rmbarbosa

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #10 on: June 18, 2015, 11:10:21 AM
Bernhard said a lot of times that we must put all our attention in what we are playing.
Best results dont depend of how many times we repeat an exercise or a section of a musical piece but of the concentration with we do it.
Many of us cant keep full concentration more than <> 15 minutes. Then, we must make a break. But those 15 minutes with full concentration are much more usefull than 3 hours of piano playing + TV or Chess or other activity.
Best wishes.
rui

Offline stevensk

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #11 on: June 18, 2015, 11:41:27 AM
But those 15 minutes with full concentration are much more usefull than 3 hours of piano playing + TV or Chess or other activity.
Best wishes.
rui

Technical exercises while watching tv works for me, maybe not for you  8)

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #12 on: June 18, 2015, 11:54:52 AM

Many years back I had a small Chopin recital in a church. In the middle of a piece I felt knockings at my back and an older lady asked me whith a low voice if I could stay and drink some coffe whith them afterwards. ;D

lol...  wow.. that's freakin harsh.

Offline hardy_practice

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #13 on: June 18, 2015, 11:58:28 AM
Technical exercises while watching tv works for me, maybe not for you  8)
Me too.  I've got a little practice keyboard by my chair.  Not used it for some months though.  Think I need to this week as I made a bit of a goof yesterday!
B Mus, PGCE, DipABRSM

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #14 on: June 18, 2015, 01:10:32 PM

Many years back I had a small Chopin recital in a church. In the middle of a piece I felt knockings at my back and an older lady asked me whith a low voice if I could stay and drink some coffe whith them afterwards. ;D

That is so hilarious! ;D I guess I could not be mad at this lady haha
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline Bob

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #15 on: June 20, 2015, 12:38:33 AM
I think there's a place for raw physical movement and repetition.  Doing an intensely thoughtful scale once is different than doing scales thoughtlessly a hundred times.  If the scales are set ok, the hundred repetitions are engraining that.


I'm still looking for a small keyboard that has actual piano action.  Everything's light, cheesy plastic keys.   Not even full size for small keyboards.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline hardy_practice

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #16 on: June 20, 2015, 07:31:37 AM
I'm still looking for a small keyboard that has actual piano action. 
Even Lizst's didn't have that - they use springs.   
B Mus, PGCE, DipABRSM

Offline Bob

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #17 on: June 21, 2015, 04:45:01 AM
Dang... There's a market niche there.  Grand piano action though.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline kirito1

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #18 on: July 02, 2015, 01:16:18 PM
Wow. That's nice. Personally, I lack the ability to multitask while playing piano due to my concentration placed fully on what I'm doing. I find that if I try to say anything besides mouthing syllables for articulation (something my piano teacher taught me, something like 'pa-pa-pa-pa'), I often slip up in at least one hand.

Offline falala

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #19 on: July 05, 2015, 10:20:16 PM
My piano teacher at college said he used to know a successful solo violinst who used to practise while reading a novel.

I think it probably makes sense, as long as you're playing the right notes with appropriate movements. Otherwise you're just practising in the wrong notes/movements and not having the attention on them to realise it.

I don't do this, but I think if I did it would be the other way around. I couldn't imagine learning a new piece that way, because I always find it takes a lot of concentration and analysis to get the piece right. But I could imagine a place for playing through a piece I already know lots of times while watching TV, just to get the sense of subconscious auto-pilot stronger and stronger, say when preparing a long piece for a recital.

Bernhard said a lot of times that we must put all our attention in what we are playing.
Best results dont depend of how many times we repeat an exercise or a section of a musical piece but of the concentration with we do it.
Many of us cant keep full concentration more than <> 15 minutes. Then, we must make a break.

I don't think I agree with that. I'm pretty sure what's known about the cognitive and neurological bases of skill development supports the fact that numerous repetitions are important.

Again, for me, concentration is really important to get something right that wasn't right. ONCE it's right, concentration can still be helpful to make it even better, but there's also a place for sheer automatic repetition. You're more likely to play something right if you've already played it right a thousand times (and not played it wrong during that time) than if you've only ever played it right once.

Offline outin

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #20 on: July 06, 2015, 04:08:27 AM

I don't think I agree with that. I'm pretty sure what's known about the cognitive and neurological bases of skill development supports the fact that numerous repetitions are important.


Yes, but they only work well if they are similar (consistent) enough. So those who have the tendency to constantly make unconscious changes to what we are doing  will not benefit from mindless repetition, it only adds confusion to the brain. For me it's possible to repeat something several times in a similar way only with 100% concentration. And that concentration usually starts failing after about 3 times...

It seems our ability to automatize movements is not equal. Someone has used an analogy of people knowing how to walk without concentrating on it...I cannot even do that and I have to learn it again every bloody morning... For the first 15 minutes I just keep stumbling on my feet ;)

Offline falala

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #21 on: July 06, 2015, 08:30:33 AM
Yes, but they only work well if they are similar (consistent) enough. So those who have the tendency to constantly make unconscious changes to what we are doing  will not benefit from mindless repetition, it only adds confusion to the brain. For me it's possible to repeat something several times in a similar way only with 100% concentration. And that concentration usually starts failing after about 3 times...

It seems our ability to automatize movements is not equal. Someone has used an analogy of people knowing how to walk without concentrating on it...I cannot even do that and I have to learn it again every bloody morning... For the first 15 minutes I just keep stumbling on my feet ;)

That's really interesting. Are you dyspraxic?

It's certainly true that people vary in how well programming by repetition "works". I've noticed this with a lot of students, and particularly doing piano with my two children. My oldest, who is severely dyspraxic, could play a passage slowly, gradually working out the kinks, until he had it right; play it a few more times lapsing back into occasional mistakes (three steps forward, two steps back, like); until finally he REALLY had it and could play it say 10 times in a row perfectly, as long as he knew exactly where to concentrate and was determined to do it.

Then if we stopped, chatted about it, and he went to play it again . . . it was like he'd never played it before and he made all the same mistakes again. It was almost as if there was no automatic programming going on. The leap from conscious to unconscious just never happened.

My daughter OTOH is much more "normal". If she irons out the mistakes and then repeats something 10 or 20 times, with concentration, by the time she's finished she's "got" it, and can play it again the next day correctly straight away. I can even hear the point in the repetitions where it starts to cross over from conscious to unconscious - the minute hesitations where conscious thought was necessary become unnecessary, and everything gathers a kind of easy rhythmic flow.

I would say, however, based on my teaching experience and what little I know of the research into such things, that most people are like my daughter, to varying degrees, aren't they? It's only where there's a specific motor processing problem or disability involved that the programming of conscious movements into unconscious "chunks" doesn't work properly, isn't it?

Offline outin

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #22 on: July 06, 2015, 10:03:02 AM
That's really interesting. Are you dyspraxic?


As far as I know I am not :)

I think there must be a lot of variation among "normal" people as well.
The whole system of cognitive and physical functions (and added to that phychological issues) needed when learning to play is quite complicated.

But I would assume that among those piano students who go on stydying for longer, the ones who find it "easy" to learn by simple repetition, will be a majority. One has to be pretty stubborn or extra motivated to keep doing something that requires a lot of extra effort and planning to work out.

Offline themusne

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #23 on: July 07, 2015, 04:25:35 AM
If I find the piece that's very difficult, I would take a break and eat or drink something, and then play again. :)

Offline picasso18

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Re: Learning new pieces while watching tv?
Reply #24 on: July 09, 2015, 04:14:03 PM
Can't say I've ever done that myself, but it seems like it's a good idea. If you can play piano while watching t.v., then it just becomes natural, you know?
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