Is Gaspard one of the hardest pieces to play for exams/ performance?

[sabtan]

Hi all,

Just wanting your opinion on what you think of Ravel's Gaspard (all 3 movements)?

Is it one of the hardest pieces to learn?

What makes it one of the hardest pieces to do?

Thanks in advance

[stevensk]

Hm.. "one of the hardest"?  -One of the hardest five pieces on earth? -Or one of the 500 hardest pieces on earth? 
-Further how do we know what is hard for YOU? This is quite personal. - And why must you play "hard" pieces?

[sabtan]

I understand it's very subjective to define "hard"

But just asking what the general opinion is, do most people find it difficult to learn in the beginning??
Or is it difficult to make it polished in the end?? And what are the difficult parts for most... just wanting a general discussion on this piece to gather some thoughts/ insights.

I am considering this for a FTCL exam repertoire to learn hence the question.

[le_poete_mourant]

It's significantly harder than any of your current repertoire, and yes it is of the most difficult level. It depends when your exam is, but I would not advise a student of mine to attempt this yet.

[abel2]

It's ridiculously hard.  Both musically and technically. 

[diomedes]

Execution is technically demanding, lots of problem solving. Control at extremely quiet dynamics, and being faithful to the score.

I wouldn't do it for FTCL. They have very high standards, and would want you to play with complete dedication to the indications in the score (which is a very fair stance).

I recorded it because i felt a deep connection with the music. I cannot say i was completely faithful to the score mainly because i was preoccupied with conveying a sense of life into the music and accomplishing something on a technical level. I think someone who can convey exactly the intent of the score, make truly convincing communication through the music and accomplish truly high technical standards is someone special. And if they can execute that in performance.... well that's remarkable, obviously.

Mind you, i refuse to listen to anyone who is entirely dedicated to the score but plays unconvincingly and takes a conservative approach to the tempo. But that's an opinion, so i don't need to defend it.

Pick something else if you want to pass.

[sabtan]

Thanks for all your input.

It's not much left for picking in the FTCL list to be honest.

I have been traditionally quite fluent in the romantic pieces, and also the impressionistic ones.
Have always done well with Debussy/ Faure etc

Looking at the list there isn't much else left to pick, except for Debussy's Feux d Artifice, but that's only 4 mins.

Still need a big piece that is reasonably achievable.

[stevensk]

If this is your repertoire:

Haydn Sonata in C maj Hob 50
Bach Toccata and Fugue in G maj
Faure Nocturne no.2 in B maj Op 33
Faure Impromptu no.3 in A major Op 34
Debussy Reflets dans l'eau

-Choose another piece

[thorn]

For a big impressionistic piece how about trying to see if you can get own choice approval on this:

With all the colour required (and the amount of black on the score) it's got to be on par? There's a link on the video to buy/download the score.

I see on the FTCL list they have the complete Liszt Annees Year 2, although only Dante is actually on FTCL (the others are all A-L level). I wonder if by the same logic you could try proposing as own choice the complete Debussy Preludes book 2?

As far as Gaspard goes, I think diomedes said it all.

[sabtan]

Thanks thorn.

Yes I am seriously considering submitting for approval of pieces of own choice. This has been suggested by other people before.

If you look at the FRSM list, they are actually "easier", though I know they make up on viva voce and other components for the FRSM diploma.

[diomedes]

Yes I am seriously considering submitting for approval of pieces of own choice.

Go right ahead, it's very common, within reason you'll get your material approved for sure.

[david456103]

having played ondine for a while and recently getting le gibet and scarbo to performance-level, here are my thoughts:
Ondine - the opening is really hard to get down - once you do get it down though, it tends to stay in your hands. same thing with passages like that right after the tremolo, hard at first but after a while you get used to it. in terms of pure technical difficulty, i found the climax and last page particularly challenging.
Le Gibet - technically speaking its not even close to the other two but it's definitely not an easy task to bring out the B-flats just the right amounts and to make the piece unwavering but not monotonous.
Scarbo - basically all the fast-sounding passages will have significant technical challenges, esp. the repeated note passages w/ chords and the passage w/ that weird LH configuration that jumps back and forth. also i haven't completely nailed the descending double moments passage yet. the middle section is similar to Ondine. musically, it has to sound scary.

[sabtan]

Thanks david that was very helpful.

I know I may not end up using this in the end, but I just wanted to gather information regarding this piece before I decide to work on it.
I wanted to hear from people who have done it and wanted their opinion on what makes this "difficult", whatever difficult may be.

Thank you for those who gave alternative suggestions and also insightful reviews regarding Gaspard.
It's a beautiful piece though, which is why I suppose it's so difficult.

[symphonicdance]

So many works to pick from the FTCL syllabus indeed 

Not sure if you have played much Ravel and/or Debussy in the past.  From efficiency and exam perspectives, they are no good.  High effort serious practice, but for a small amount of time of wonderful music to be performed.  I think that the sound colour and mood shaping will be most difficult, particularly when the grand piano of the exam centre is poorly maintained (often in the case in this part of Asia).  Exam fee is very high (again, at least in this part of Asia).  Worth to take risk?

Nonetheless, if you think you are capable, then no harm to try a bit first, perhaps its first movement.  Also, listen to as much recordings of authoritative Ravel interpreters as possible.  You must convince the examiners (at least one of them is a piano expert).

If you cannot quite progress in accordance with your expected timeline, then discard it and find another works.  In fact, I assume you should have shortlisted a few works to study.

Having said that, many candidates just follow the choices of their teachers to make up their programmes.  I did my FTCL by self-learning, and so I can modify mine whenever I deem necessary.  For example, my FTCL programme was originally planned (after I explored 90% of the FTCL syllabus, not to the perfection, but to play them and see if my strengths can fit and my weaknesses can be avoided) and changed...
Bach-Busoni Chaconne + Chopin Andante spianato et grand polonaise + Stravinsky Serenade
Bach Partita No 6 + Hindemith PS No 3 + Grainger In Dahomey
Bach Partita No 6 + Beethoven PS No 31 + Grainger In Dahomey
Bach Partita No 6 or Beethoven PS No 31 + Prokofiev PS No 9
Bach Partita No 6 + Beethoven PS No 31 (final)

Why I did not make Gaspard my choice in the programme?  I am in my forties and my fingers aren't as swift as before.  Also, my hands aren't very big.  My piano (at home) is not a decent grand piano, in fact a not-so-well maintained upright, and I can't explore the variety of sound & tone colours for this work.  (I did play Ravel Sonatine for my LT though.)

Good luck!

[sabtan]

Thanks symphonicdance for the lengthy reply.

Yes, FTCL choices. Where shall I begin. Not.  I see now the FRSM have the exact same repertoire as FTCL. Looks like they're streamlining it too.

I see you have a strong Bach presence in your choices. I don't do so well in Bach. Yes, funny that.
It took me a loooonng time to get the phrasing right. It's much better now, but it's still a work in progress.

Like you said, I'll just have to try a little. I also started work on the Sonata in A by Schubert. I know the last few movements are going to be crazy, but at least I do enjoy the 1st movement for now.

I don't think you will actually know until you've worked it through thoroughly and know where your strengths and weaknesses are.
I saw you did the Grainger Dahomey. Sounded interesting but looking at the scores it doesn't seem easy!!

Yes, I understand your part on following the teachers' selections. ( I originated from Asia too, but currently live in NZ ) However I am fortunate enough to have a good teacher who let me have the freedom on my choices, and willing to work with me on them. However he is also realistic enough to point out the difficulty of some of the pieces I've chosen and I respect his insight enough to agree with him on some levels.

Anyway, it'll all be a trial and error.
From many conversations of other pianists looks like most took years to learn/ perfect Gaspard.

Like I said, I also am not discounting submitting for approval of other choices if push comes to shove.

Thanks again for your input.

[aweshana21]

Hard to say by the question