Repertoire Advice -- Feeling frustrated and "behind"

[newkidintown]

Hello again, everyone!

I've just been cleaning out my sheet music, which has given me time to reflect on a few things about my playing. I feel it's probably best to give backstory now, for the sake of preventing any confusion, as my playing experience has been... rocky, to say the least. If you don't care to read through it all (I wouldn't blame you), feel free to skip to the last paragraph.

I started playing piano as a small child, learning how to read music at the same time as learning to read books. My first instructor was a church pianist who hardly managed to get me through a basic method book over the course of the year, but to no fault of her own. Looking back, I don't think I was mature enough to be learning the instrument, and when I changed schools the next year and started on their lesson program (it was a private school), my immaturity was paired with a bad teacher who tried to force me into classical music even though I was a child who just wanted to experiment. I would cry through lessons and practise, eventually throwing tantrums so bad the teacher would have to walk me up and down the hall until I calmed down. I didn't learn chords until my third or fourth year playing, and even then, I only knew how to read them. My knowledge of theory only encompassed what was needed to read the songs in my method books.

Near the end of elementary school, I switched teachers. This lady was convinced that any mistake I made was an effort to sabotage her lesson business, and we would regularly engage in shouting matches about repertoire (at this time in my life, I just wanted to play musical accompaniments... don't ask me why... and she wanted me to play smooth jazz) and my abilities. She often told me I wasn't good enough for certain things, one of her favourites running along the lines of "you aren't good enough to play this piece with emotion, and anyhow, that's not what music's for". Two years of that, and I was frustrated and insecure, and I quit lessons.

In the years that followed, I began to love piano. I started listening to jazz and classical of my own accord, and started arranging some of my favourite rock and punk songs for solo piano, learning theory as I went. However, my playing was extremely damaged, especially my technique. I could read sheet music for diploma level pieces, and I knew what to do to play them, but I had the technique of a grade four student. I have been doing exercises daily (these are my favourites: https://pianoexercises.org/exercises/philipp/philipp-complete-school-of-technic.pdf), but the gap between what I know and what I can do is so large it's frustrating. I started playing keyboard a few years ago, really focusing on it this past year as I've gotten a teacher again, and it's the only time I really feel like I have fun playing the instrument anymore. My teacher is like a mentor to me, and in the past few months alone I've learned more than I have in the past decade of playing. However, I still want to play the classical pieces I've grown to love, despite my lack of ability.

I'm coming upon my thirteenth year playing keyboard instruments, and the high school I attend has an extremely competitive music program. For example, last year a freshman won the school's piano competition with Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C# minor. This doesn't much help my lack of confidence. Also, my hands are very small, meaning that some pieces I love to listen to, such as Brahms Sonata III, are painful to play.

So, now that all of THAT is explained, I'm looking for a piece that will help with my confidence and ability. I can ask my instructor for help, as they are well-versed in classical playing (not so much classical pieces, hence my asking here), and I've taught myself pieces such as the Grave portion of Beethoven's Sonata Pathetique, Mendelssohn's Lieder Ohne Worte op.19b no.1, several parts of Bach's WTC, and almost all of Ravel's A la maniere de Borodin. My favourite composers are Khachaturian, Ravel, Shostakovich, Gershwin, Brahms, Prokofiev, and cliche as it is, Beethoven. Any ideas?

[feddera]

Bach: two-part inventions
Beethoven: op49-sonatas

[slane]

Beethoven is a cliche??? YOu should play more beethoven! And watch Johnathan Biss's lectures on the sonatas.

The pieces you mention are around the 5th/6th grade in the NZMEB syllabus.
https://www.nzmeb.org/syllabuses/piano/performance/grade5

Most of your favourite composers are represented on that list.

[newkidintown]

Thank you both!

@slane: Yeah, for some reason I always get teased by other pianists my age for enjoying Beethoven and the other composers listed rather than Chopin. Luckily my teacher adores Beethoven, and even spent a month's worth of lessons helping me analyse Sonata Pathetique. I've actually had Biss's lectures in my queue since then, maybe this is a sign to finally watch them! By the way, do you have any specific suggestions from that list you posted? I've heard quite a few pieces on there, I just don't know what they're like to play.

@feddera: Thank you! I'm looking them up right now.

[irrational]

I am playing similar pieces to what you mention, but I listen to a very large amount of music all the time, depending on how I feel.

I piece that I really enjoy currently playing is Mozart's Fantasia K.397. Hard to get right, but I love it. There is a whole lot of technique variation and musicality in that piece. I think Schubert's Moments Musicaux and some Impromptus are very accessible and fun too.

But since you seem to like the more modern russians, I can certainly recommend Tchaikovsky's seasons(op. 37) and 6 Morceaux(Op.19) amongst other works. Have you looked at Kabalevsky as well?

I have also fallen in love with Haydn sonatas recently. Its well worth listening to, to see how you feel about them. They sound very pleasant (almost exclusively majors) and can look fairly impressive due to speed, but is often not so hard to learn. Try Hob. XVI - 48 and other late sonatas for instance.

[bronnestam]

I'm madly in love with Beethoven. You can never learn too much Beethoven or like Beethoven too much. Hands down.        

I am not a Mozart period right now but I believe that some Mozart pieces are essential. So I have ro recommend him when you lay your foundation.
When I studied piano in my teens I did not like Beethoven very much, that came much later ... instead I was fascinated by Debussy. Lovely music which did not feel as "strict" as the old classical masters, maybe that could be your cup of tea?

Right now I study some female composers. My teacher is crazy about female composers and she has made me a "believer", even though nobody beats Beethoven IMO. When you start to discover some of them, you get shocked that such good music is so unknown. Most people seem to believe that the relative non-existence of classical female composers is either due to they simply did not exist OR that they were less good than the well-known male masters. Well, this is wrong, in my opinion. They just fell victims of some sad history revision in the beginning of the 20th century. There were many popular and respected female musicians/composers in the 18th and 19th century.

It is also a bit sad that most of us assume that "forgotten" music and composers simply did not deserve to be remembered, that is why they are forgotten. No, this is not always true!
I tell you this because I want to give you a tip: it is very nice to have a repertoire that is not just standard-standard too. If you check out composers like Maria Szymanowska, Louise Farrenc, Teresa Carreño, Agathe Backer-Gröndahl, just to mention a few, you will find a real treasure of great music that is fun to play as everyone has not heard it a million times before.

Last week I went to a piano summer school and I brought this piece with me and played it for the others. Only ONE person, a young student, had ever heard this name before! And everybody said "whoah, what a lovely piece!" and yet they had never heard it.
(This recording is better than me, for sure, but this piece is not terribly difficult.)

[kevin69]

> My teacher is crazy about female composers

How do you tell the difference between music composed by men and women?

[j_menz]

How do you tell the difference between music composed by men and women?

Google.

[indianajo]

Wow all this 19th century stuff.
I do play some Beethoven but a lot of his stuff requires a big stretch, so you might waste some time learning things until you get to the part impossible to play with small hands.  All those octaves in Moonlight mov 3 are doable, but make me take NAISD pills for the tendons if I practice it too much.
Have you tried E. Lecuona, E. Granados , Godowsky?  You won't win any piano competitions playing these but I got some unsophisticated people to stop carrying food around and stand and listen to the piano at the charity dinner last Saturday. I do PLayera and original Malaguena by memory, the last was covered in arrangement by Minneapolis Orchestra in Cuba last month.   
Debussy, Golliwog's Cakewalk, The Girl with the Flaxen Hair, The Sunken Cathedral.
Scott Joplin - I like Magnetic, Paragon, and Maple Leaf Rags.  I don't like how Marvin Hamlisch turned the Entertainer into Chopin light, so I won't learn that one.  I'm learning Pinetop Perkins Original Boogie Woogie and am trying to morph that into JoAnn Castle's arrangements of everything pop with a boogie woogie left hand.  I was monkeying with American Patrol last night, after JoAnn's arrangement on the Welk show rerun. 
Amy Beach has two things I want to learn, Prelude and Fugue, and something about fountains. 
I don't do any Chopin, too weepy and limp for me mostly.  That Adagio and Something in F is manly, but pretty long. 
Jazz, I like Count on Him, Satin Doll, and Take the A train in Hanson House D094i 47 Modern Jazz Pieces.  Yeah, if you're not improvising it is not jazz, but these are nice arrangements for the the improv idiots like me. 
Modern Jazz I like George Winston, but I'm having to write out his stuff off the record, he doesn't sell things yet.  I understand there is software now that will do this for you.  I do The Holly and the Ivy ala Winston for friends at Christmas. 
Glad you found a teacher that builds you up instead of stroking their own ego by telling you how inappropriate your skills were. 
So have fun with it. I'm having a ball now that I am retired and have time to practice, not make money.  I'm beginnning to have gigs scheduled, Pictures at an Exhibition for friends  next fall after I perfect it.   I bought a $50 piano two weeks ago for my summer camp, so I don't lose the accuracy this summer like  I did the last two years. 

[bronnestam]

> My teacher is crazy about female composers

How do you tell the difference between music composed by men and women?

[/qu

You cannot, if you listen. If you read music history, the difference is huge, unfortunately.

[newkidintown]

Thank you everyone!

@irrational: I just checked out those pieces, and while Schubert's works look interesting, the Mozart Fantasia seems perfect for me right now. Just the right kind of technical demands to help me learn while not leaving me frustrated. I do like Kabalevsky quite a bit, and hadn't even thought of Tchaikovsky... I've had selections from The Nutcracker hammered into my head so much I'd nearly forgotten he wrote non-Christmas music! For Haydn, are there in minor Sonatas you would recommend? Since I play piano in my school's orchestra and our director is obsessed with light, happy Baroque pieces, I end up spending so much time playing major pieces during the school year that I can't stand it come summer!

@bronnestam: Which Mozart pieces do you consider essential? I'm still trying to figure out what the "standard" repertoire for a piano student looks like. I know, of course, that differs for everybody, but it would be nice not to worry about being embarrassed by not knowing a popular piece anymore... At school I get comments like "what kind of pianist doesn't know _______?" all the time, and it's getting old. I ADORE lesser known composers, though, my most recent find being Samuel Coleridge-Taylor (his Forest Scenes are absolutely magical... I feel as though I'm there in the music, seeing and feeling everything the characters do). I'll be sure to look into the composers you mention, one can never listen to too much good music!

@indianajo: I haven't tried any Lecuona or Granados, but I played some things by Godowsky a while ago. I'll have to look at their works again. I hate to sound picky, but I've never really enjoyed Debussy, Joplin, Beach, or Chopin. I've listened to work by all of them, and even sight read a few pieces by each, but I find I can never get as invested in their music as I do other composers. I absolutely love jazz, though! I wasn't even going to mention it too much because I thought everyone on here was classical only. Two questions for you, then, if you don't mind: 1) what do you do to work on improvisation (I'm always looking for new approaches!), and 2) what's the most acceptable way of performing jazz? I know how to read a lead sheet, but I'm not sure how much I'm expected to follow the sheet and/or original recording and how much I'm expected to "make it my own". By the way, best of luck with Pictures at an Exhibition and any other upcoming performances!

Thank you all again!

[dcstudio]

: 1) what do you do to work on improvisation (I'm always looking for new approaches!), and 2) what's the most acceptable way of performing jazz? I know how to read a lead sheet, but I'm not sure how much I'm expected to follow the sheet and/or original recording and how much I'm expected to "make it my own".

1.) I put on backing tracks from youtube and play along, or I pick a key and a chord progression and play around with different riffs.   I also spend a significant amount of time listening to Bill
Evans and Oscar Peterson.   
I also really find it helpful to figure out tunes I've never played strictly from memory.  That really solidifies things...IMHO.  Start with the melody then figure out the chord progression and write your own lead sheet.  Do it without listening to the song over and over.

 How well can you read a lead sheet? if you see say F#m7 b5 or Ab7 b9 do you freak out?  How much you are expected to follow the music depends on what type of gig you are playing.   A solo pianist is free to do whatever they wish...but if you are playing in a big band you will be expected to follow things exactly.  Trying to "make it your own" usually has poor results--changing a song just to say you changed it really doesn't work.   After you've played the Real book through and through and performed each standard 100 ways with 100 bands--you will be making it your own without even thinking about it. 

as for what's the most acceptable way of performing jazz?  wow--good question.  I have no idea...I just go to my gigs and hope for the best...lol. 

[newkidintown]

as for what's the most acceptable way of performing jazz?  wow--good question.  I have no idea...I just go to my gigs and hope for the best...lol. 

I'm glad I'm not the only one, then!

I'd say I read lead sheets decently... At least, I know those chords you mentioned without having to think about it too much. I couldn't instinctively pick them out on a keyboard like I could a normal triad or seventh, but that's only because of the extensions. I hadn't thought of trying to make lead sheets from memory, I'll have to start doing that!

As far as performing jazz, would you say it might be best to learn the melody, chord progression, and structure very well (well enough to adapt to whatever setting you're playing it in), and not worry too much about making it sound a certain way? I'm just trying to figure out what the jazz-focused part of my practise sessions should look like.

Thank you for your response, by the way!

[dcstudio]

I'm glad I'm not the only one, then!

I'd say I read lead sheets decently... At least, I know those chords you mentioned without having to think about it too much. I couldn't instinctively pick them out on a keyboard like I could a normal triad or seventh,

there's step one---learn to pick them out instinctively... those extensions are the "jazz" notes. To play jazz as a pianist all those chords must be second nature. Normal is rare in jazz...lol

As far as performing jazz, would you say it might be best to learn the melody, chord progression, and structure very well (well enough to adapt to whatever setting you're playing it in), and not worry too much about making it sound a certain way? I'm just trying to figure out what the jazz-focused part of my practise sessions should look like.

Thank you for your response, by the way!

In the beginning you have to "shed" those tunes from the real book. (in the old days--you actually went to the wood shed to practice...hence the term "shed")  Study the progressions and practice using different voicings.   Yes you should really concentrate on learning the melody and chord progressions first.  Perform them a few times in a few different settings then you can start adding some fluff to the arrangement.


For your jazz focused practice...download Miles Davis--kind of blue and transcribe his solo on So What. Play along with it until you can play every single note right along with him.  Analyze what he is doing--is he varying the melody--outlining chord tones--whatever...  This is how they taught us in Jazz school.  They also told us to practice chord voicings and spend at least an hour a day listening to jazz greats.