Accompanying for dummies ;-)

[kawai_cs]

 Hi! Can you please give me some information and advice how to prepare oneself to do piano accompanying?
I have never done that before. I am a lousy sight-reader so I am working to improve that skill which is crucial here, I guess. Do you ever get the scores in advance or do you have to play a vista?
What else is important and what skills are needed?
Are there any pieces that student violinists, cellists etc play a lot so I could have a look at them?

[visitor]

listening is key. knowing the soloist part as well as  yours (i aim to know as well or better than the singer or instrumentalist), it is critical to be able to change plans and adjust to a fumble or jump ahead or back or fill in if they get off track and not de rail the whole piece.

also, balance. you are there to support and play under the soloist. they usually do not play loudly enough so you will be asked to play softer and softer and softer still.  be able to find places where you can bring your part out.

reading is important, but perfect sight reading not really big deal unless you are doing high volume or lot of last minute stuff. when i accompany, i put a strict policy of not accepting anyone unless i have music the same day they choose/receive theirs. and if they pick last minute, i will pass on anything less than two weeks out. i require them to attend regular rehearsals throughout, not just a bunch at the last minute while they get it 'finished'.

the other lit is vast so cannot go into a list of works. however, i will say , be weary of solo vocalists (the legendary 'diva' syndrome is real, but not necc limited to them).

also try to get into playing piano II to accompnay other pianists, that is generaly lots of fun and you'll get to learn some great concertos etc. :0

[michael_c]

Becoming a good accompanist is very much a business of learning by doing. To start out, look for partners who are willing and forgiving. Try to find other musicians whose level on their instrument, be it violin, clarinet, or whatever, is comparable to your level on the piano. Ask singers too (they aren't all divas!).

There's so much repertoire, there's no point in preparing particular pieces. First find your partner, ask them what they want to play through or work on, get them to give you the piano parts and get familiar with the pieces before you meet for the first time. It won't hurt to play them through alone with a metronome: one of the essential qualities of an accompanist is to be able to keep in time, or simply to keep going!

Sight-reading skills are important. Indeed all the experienced accompanists I know (myself included) are expert sight-readers. But did they become accompanists because they were expert sight-readers, or did they become expert sight-readers through doing so much accompanying? In my case, it was the latter: I wasn't at all good at sight-reading until I started playing with other musicians. What with the extra stimulus of having a partner (who I shouldn't let down) and the sheer bulk of music with which I was suddenly confronted, my sight-reading improved enormously in a short period of time.

Any way, it's rare to have to play prima vista. There are certain situations where this may be necessary, but most of the time the essential thing is being able to learn something quickly. Not to perfection, just to a level that is enough for the purpose. For instance, if a violinist contacts you to play through the concerto they're working on, there's no point in learning the orchestral part as you would a Chopin étude. It's more like "how can I fake this passage so that I bring out the essential things that the soloist needs to hear?"

[kawai_cs]

Visitor, Michael_c - thank you for your response. I really appreciate it.
I think I will have to pass on accompanying then    I am just too scared.  And I would be feeling embarrassed being paid and not delivering professional accompaniment. (I would have no choice of who to accompany because I was asked to do it for my teacher when she is too busy).

[dcstudio]

I say do it...  being too scared is what holds most pianists back.

At first accompanying is not cost effective at all---you end up spending a lot of time learning the music and only get paid for the rehearsal and the performance...it takes a while to get the feel of it. 

You have to ask yourself what exactly you are afraid of?  What is going to happen should you deliver a less than perfect accomp.?    I can tell you--having delivered a few piss poor performance in my early days as an accompanist--nothing... that's right...nothing happens.  The money still comes in and you go on...  Sometimes the soloist will blame you even when it isn't your fault--but that's ok...  just keep plucking away. 

If your teacher asked you to do it---she must have confidence in your abilities

after a while---accompanying gets really easy because you've played all the contest stuff.

Sight reading as an accompanist usually only happens if you do Musical theater auditions and stuff like that.  Those can be tough because you have to transpose at sight too...sometimes.

get out there and do it,  you are never going to "feel ready"  so do it now...
'

as a general rule--singers are the hardest ones to accompany--not because they are divas--tho they are.,.--but because they are the most dependent --a sax player will keep going no matter what...  singers are like deer in headlights when they lose it.

[Bob]

Find some kids at a school (contact the school, then band/orchestra/chorus teacher) and accompany them.  You wouldn't get paid much, but if you did it for free, you'll probably get some work thrown your way.  Because they'll want to help you out, and the other accompanists don't care about it that much.  Low pay, crappy work.  And plenty of it.  Take some if you want it.

A church could work too, but those are more group oriented.  A bit harder to find too.  potentially more of a commitment.  The kid things are usually solo and one-offs.  Do the job, maybe get paid, move on.  Do it again later if you want, or not.  You'll learn a ton, go through a lot of music, and the results aren't really that important.

[michael_c]

Visitor, Michael_c - thank you for your response. I really appreciate it.
I think I will have to pass on accompanying then    I am just too scared.  And I would be feeling embarrassed being paid and not delivering professional accompaniment.

Learn to do it first, get paid later when you're good at it! Offer your services for free, explain that you're doing this to gain experience. I started accompanying when I was about 14, had my first paid accompanying job (I think) when I was 18, but still went on playing for fellow students in their lessons for free.

[kawai_cs]

Thank you ALL for your kind advice. I have not decided yet.  Accompanying sounds very tempting to me - I am sure I am going to love making music together with other people. However...
I just can't help thinking that instead of putting all my free time into music which I love, but won't ever bring me anything except pleasure, I should be investing the time in expanding my professional skills

[dcstudio]

the other accompanists don't care about it that much.  Low pay, crappy work.  And plenty of it.  Take some if you want it.

yeah buddy--it's all yours...lol   have a great time...

[michael_c]

However...
I just can't help thinking that instead of putting all my free time into music which I love, but won't ever bring me anything except pleasure, I should be investing the time in expanding my professional skills

What professional skills do you want to expand?

[amytsuda]

I don't think your teacher would ask you to step in with no preparation on the spot? I am sure you can tell her what is the scope you can take on and that you won't do it otherwise? For cello, I think you can take a look, Haydn Concerto No 2 D Major, Brahms Sonata Op 38 and Op 99, Chopin Sonata Op 65, Tchaikovsky Variations on a Theme Rocco, Pezzo Cappricioso, Debussy Sonata D Minor, Rachmaninoff Sonata Op 19, Shostakovich Sonata Op 40, and Faure Elegy for encore and you got most of them Try a few times with cellists and see if you like it.

[kawai_cs]

What professional skills do you want to expand?

Programming.

I don't think your teacher would ask you to step in with no preparation on the spot?

I am not sure, she might be overestimating me.
Thanks a lot for those examples!! I will check them out right away:-)

[breakup]

I tried it once, my daughters assessment, "I don't play well with others", the arrangement was for piano, and a keyboard playing in some other voice, and at the end we included a flute.   The Pianist and the flutist were professionals, I was an amateur, and it went all wrong.   First the pianist played the keyboard in the piano voice and I was having a hard time picking out my own part, second the professionals played strictly in time and I was accustomed to  interpreting the music to suit myself.  Needless to say it all fell apart and I just put the music away.   There is definitely a difference between playing as a soloist and an accompanist. 

[pianoplunker]

Visitor, Michael_c - thank you for your response. I really appreciate it.
I think I will have to pass on accompanying then    I am just too scared.  And I would be feeling embarrassed being paid and not delivering professional accompaniment. (I would have no choice of who to accompany because I was asked to do it for my teacher when she is too busy).

While michael_c and others have offered very intelligent insight into your questions about accompanning and what is involved, no need to be scared or embarassed. You might find it to be fun and exciting to work with other musicians. Just start with simpler stuff, maybe later you do concertos or maybe not. Sometimes I enjoy making fun of the "Divas" ( female , and male ) when they forget the words, haha how stupid, but we are all in  it together as musicians.

[dcstudio]

I tried it once, my daughters assessment, "I don't play well with others", the arrangement was for piano, and a keyboard playing in some other voice, and at the end we included a flute.   The Pianist and the flutist were professionals, I was an amateur, and it went all wrong.   First the pianist played the keyboard in the piano voice and I was having a hard time picking out my own part, second the professionals played strictly in time and I was accustomed to  interpreting the music to suit myself.  Needless to say it all fell apart and I just put the music away.   There is definitely a difference between playing as a soloist and an accompanist. 

unfortunately, so many pianists quit trying to play with others at this point... they blame themselves and chalk it up to "I just can't do it."

  that's a pretty serious wound your daughter unknowing and unintentionally inflicted upon your musical ego..

 Based on what you've said---   the pro pianist should have had her keyboard voice up and ready to go---that's why you are a professional...because you don't do stuff like that....and if you do--you correct it immediately on the fly. 
when you are playing with amateurs it's your responsibility to be "the rock" in the group--that's why you are there--so the amateurs can follow you--she should have known better.     additionally--if you were unsure of the tempo--it may not have necessarily been you that was even off the beat--you just assumed it was you because they were "pro's"---I know plenty of pro's who have bad time... 

 ... so quit beating yourself up about this one--it wasn't all your fault. Get back on the horse and try again.  Making music with others is a good thing...and a completely different performance "rush" then playing solo.. it's worth it...

[breakup]

unfortunately, so many pianists quit trying to play with others at this point... they blame themselves and chalk it up to "I just can't do it."

  That's a pretty serious wound your daughter unknowing and unintentionally inflicted upon your musical ego..

 Based on what you've said---   the pro pianist should have had her keyboard voice up and ready to go---that's why you are a professional...because you don't do stuff like that....and if you do--you correct it immediately on the fly. 
when you are playing with amateurs it's your responsibility to be "the rock" in the group--that's why you are there--so the amateurs can follow you--she should have known better.     additionally--if you were unsure of the tempo--it may not have necessarily been you that was even off the beat--you just assumed it was you because they were "pro's"---I know plenty of pro's who have bad time... 

 ... so quit beating yourself up about this one--it wasn't all your fault. Get back on the horse and try again.  Making music with others is a good thing...and a completely different performance "rush" then playing solo.. it's worth it...

That is my intention, but with a different instrument for now, maybe the piano later.  I played cornet in HS and College and the horn sat in my living room for a couple years after my oldest granddaughter decided she really didn't want to play.   2 of my other grandchildren kept asking me to get the horn out and play and let them try, which I did a few times, all the time thinking I should start practicing again and get into a group after I had my lip back.   Then the 9 year old grandson decided to take lessons at school and there went the horn, but I had gotten the itch, so I bought another one.  This time a trumpet, which played the same as a Cornet, so when I get back in shape enough, I'll be looking for somewhere to play.   Given my experience in HS and College, I know I can play in a group, it's just being comfortable on the particular instrument.   I've always played a horn in a group, and the piano has always been a solo instrument. 

As far as what my daughter said, it was the truth, and sometimes I value the truth more than some false praise. 

[dcstudio]

   I've always played a horn in a group, and the piano has always been a solo instrument. 

As far as what my daughter said, it was the truth, and sometimes I value the truth more than some false praise. 

well then if you can play with others on the horn---then your daughters statement was not true.  I know she meant nothing by it and I don't even know her. 

You are also setting yourself up by differentiating the piano and the trumpet like that...  I know they are completely different instruments...but music is music.   In college we were forced to take woodwinds class, brass class, strings class---not just to become familiar with the instrument but to learn to be the same musician on whatever instrument is in front of us...I don't mean to imply that I mastered any of them--a passed out in the middle of class while learning the flute--hyperventilated...lol

but whatever brainpower allows you to keep time on the trumpet will allow you to do the same for the piano...  I am feeling like the fear of piano goes beyond the statement your daughter made.   Did someone else tell you that you were a bad pianist?  or did you play as a child and have a bad experience?  that's usually the case in this kind of situation.

[breakup]

but whatever brainpower allows you to keep time on the trumpet will allow you to do the same for the piano...  I am feeling like the fear of piano goes beyond the statement your daughter made.   Did someone else tell you that you were a bad pianist?  or did you play as a child and have a bad experience?  that's usually the case in this kind of situation.

I believe your statement is closer to the truth than you know.   There are 2 memories that stand out from my time learning to play the piano.   First my mother said that if I could play Clare De Lune, I would be a real pianist, I think she was very impressed with the piece, and that might be part of the intimidation I felt for many years.  The other memory is when I had started to be interested in classical music and was learning some pieces, (Moonlight Sonata for one) and my father said in a rather angry sounding voice, "I don't want to hear music that sounds like someone practicing their scales" and he walked out.   That memory has stuck with me, and may be part of my difficulty in playing piano in a group.   His disapproval of my choice in music is still rather intimidating.   His choice in music was more in line with the TV show "Hit Parade", my parents also liked Lawrence Welk, so real classical music was not one of their choices. 

[kawai_cs]

I tried it once, my daughters assessment, "I don't play well with others",

Gosh, that seems like a hasty judgment. Life would be so sad if we all got judged that precipitantly. You try one time - you are not good enough - fail. Where is room for work on the skill, where is the joy of working your way up and improving?

[breakup]

Gosh, that seems like a hasty judgment. Life would be so sad if we all got judged that precipitantly. You try one time - you are not good enough - fail. Where is room for work on the skill, where is the joy of working your way up and improving?

I'm old, and I have a lot of baggage, but I'm working on it. 

[dcstudio]

   First my mother said that if I could play Clare De Lune, I would be a real pianist,

 my father said in a rather angry sounding voice, "I don't want to hear music that sounds like someone practicing their scales"
   

you do realize that in order to please your mother musically and have her validate you as a pianist-- (by playing Claire de Lune)--you would upset your father--it was a no win situation for you...  What were you to do?  There really aren't  many things worse than feeling like you offended someone with your playing--that sticks with you forever...

Oh how I know that pain...wow. lol

I have taught many adults over the years who have returned to the piano later in life.  All of them have a story about a bad musical experience in their youth.  If mom and dad were part of the equation -- the emotional after-shocks hit them every time they even think about playing in front of someone.   

on the upside, my friend--students who are complete neurotics are always the ones with the most talent...  generally speaking anyway.

once you overcome this--and I think you will--then you can experience the joy that comes with really making someone happy with your playing.   Namely, you! lol.

Do you argue with people who say you play well?  or do you think to yourself --(they obviously can't hear--or--they're just being nice)   I bet you do... Do you apologize for your playing when it is less than perfect?  I bet you do that, too.  You lost sleep over your poor performance in front of your daughter as well...yes?

then you are a perfectly normal pianist!

I have been there    don't give up--just stop putting so much pressure on yourself to deliver a spectacular performance that will change the world...  try to just concentrate on enjoying what you're doing.

[breakup]

you do realize that in order to please your mother musically and have her validate you as a pianist-- (by playing Claire de Lune)--you would upset your father--it was a no win situation for you...  What were you to do?  There really aren't  many things worse than feeling like you offended someone with your playing--that sticks with you forever...

Oh how I know that pain...wow. lol

I have taught many adults over the years who have returned to the piano later in life.  All of them have a story about a bad musical experience in their youth.  If mom and dad were part of the equation -- the emotional after-shocks hit them every time they even think about playing in front of someone.   

on the upside, my friend--students who are complete neurotics are always the ones with the most talent...  generally speaking anyway.

once you overcome this--and I think you will--then you can experience the joy that comes with really making someone happy with your playing.   Namely, you! lol.

Do you argue with people who say you play well?  or do you think to yourself --(they obviously can't hear--or--they're just being nice)   I bet you do... Do you apologize for your playing when it is less than perfect?  I bet you do that, too.  You lost sleep over your poor performance in front of your daughter as well...yes?

then you are a perfectly normal pianist!

I have been there    don't give up--just stop putting so much pressure on yourself to deliver a spectacular performance that will change the world...  try to just concentrate on enjoying what you're doing.

Just to clarify, and so you know I'm not totally opposed to playing in front of others, a couple of stories about me. 

I met my 1st wife in college, and on a visit to her parents I sat down at their piano and played Fur Elise, the younger daughter (who was apparently taking lessons, and working to learn that piece), looked at me after I had finished and said "I hate you", and stormed off.   She was about 13, and apparently my playing the piece without music upset her.

Several years later I met my 2nd wife and on our first date we went roller skating, and then to listen to a band playing music.   When the band took a break we got up to walk around and I found an upright piano, and we sat down and I played the 1st movement of Moonlight Sonata.   It was a bit of a surprise to her because I had said nothing about playing the piano.  That was just over 39 years ago and we are still together, so I must have done something right.   

[dcstudio]

...lol..ok...so maybe I get a little dramatic.  

piano means a whole lot to you.  

Just to clarify, and so you know I'm not totally opposed to playing in front of others, a couple of stories about me.  

I met my 1st wife in college, and on a visit to her parents I sat down at their piano and played Fur Elise, the younger daughter (who was apparently taking lessons, and working to learn that piece), looked at me after I had finished and said "I hate you", and stormed off.   She was about 13, and apparently my playing the piece without music upset her.

Several years later I met my 2nd wife and on our first date we went roller skating, and then to listen to a band playing music.   When the band took a break we got up to walk around and I found an upright piano, and we sat down and I played the 1st movement of Moonlight Sonata.   It was a bit of a surprise to her because I had said nothing about playing the piano.  That was just over 39 years ago and we are still together, so I must have done something right.  

although---your first story is very interesting...as is the second incident you shared.  

please forgive my over-psychoanalytical brain...  but you're stories aren't so much about you not being afraid to perform but the reaction--or implied reaction/effect--of your performance... you seem more interested in telling me of two reactions that you perceive to be positive--although the 13yr old said "I hate you" didn't she--and you stated she was "upset." --that performance must have been good--because it "upset" her--(like your father?)---like I said I am just over-psycho...

just an observation...  I mean no disrespect.

in my last post I associated the word "upset" with your father... you used it in context with "doing something right"---and that's all I am going to say about that

your second story is about falling in love with your 2nd wife--that you associate with that day you went roller skating, hearing a band play --and your performance of Moonlight Sonata--it's beautiful by the way...and very connected with what you told me about your mother telling you that you would be a "real pianist" if....

this is highly personal stuff--but not so much so that I feel terrible about posting it...