pogorelich is a weirdo (?)

[pencilart3]

Can somebody clear this up? Why did he get out of the Chopin competition when he (probably) should have moved on? Why does everyone say that he is really messed up? Is he mentally challenged or something? I know he makes weird faces and such while playing, but this is pretty impressive

. Yeah he's not my absolute favorite, but I don't think he's THAT bad... can somebody tell me why he was knocked out of the competition and why everyone thinks he's so messed up? At least that's the impression I'm getting from reading things...

[blackonwhite]

The reason he lost he Chopin Competition was because, while his performances at the competition were great and interesting the judges were shocked at the "headstrong liberties he took in his interpretation" and the clothes he wore (tight pants no jacket just completely non competition casual style clothes) provoked the judges.

     The reason people say he has lost his mind are true in my opinion he shaved his head most of his current day interpretations are incredibly slower than the normal interpretation speed of most I think the reason is because he took a big mental blow when his wife died and then to top it all the allegations of aids. I think this all caused him to lose it

[diomedes]

I really wish there was some way to hear the Royal Festival Hall performance from this, apparently it caused great loathing from critics. I'd much rather hear it for myself, but it was said that he used scores for most of it and wasn't particularly civil to the page turner. But that's written on the internet, i can't allow myself to accept it as a fact.

I think his choices of tempo get under the skin of most people, if it's convincing i can't see it as offensive.

I often find his playing very much worth listening to, occasionally i don't care for the approach.

[j_menz]

The Chopin competition was established  with three aims: 1) To provide a piano competition for up and coming pianists; 2) to promote the works of Chopin; and 3) "to perpetuate the piano playing tradition that was characteristic of his style".

That quote is from their website.

The sorts of liberties Pogorelich took were precisely the sort of thing the completion was intended to stamp out, so it's no small wonder he was not well loved by the jury (actual musicians aside).

[rubinsteinmad]

Fou T'song (look him up) once quoted something like, You have to have a good heart to be a good artist. To be a good musician you have to be a good artist. Or something like that.



Pogorelich probably has a good heart. Well, definitely he has a kind heart.

    Wikipedia:
          "In 1994 he helped to provide medical support for the people of Sarajevo by setting up a foundation that organized charity concerts. He has helped to raise money for the rebuilding of Sarajevo, the Red Cross and the fight against illnesses such as cancer and multiple sclerosis."


But he may be a little... opinionated?.....

A quote from https://articles.latimes.com/1993-01-13/entertainment/ca-1348_1_international-piano-competition
 
"The Soviet Bloc authorities had decided months before the competition that it was politically necessary to have a North Vietnamese winner," Pogorelich said. "My decision to participate was not at all welcome. I was told I should wait a year, for the Tchaikovsky competition, when I would have the first prize guaranteed.

"It makes me laugh when I read about how different styles of Chopin--new Chopin, old Chopin--confused the judges. That's all nonsense--the winner was chosen in accordance with the policy of the government."

[sabtan]

If you talk about being opinionated, no one can beat Krystian Zimmerman and his outbursts ( political or not ) at his concerts.

He's a brilliant pianist, but if I'm one of the audience where he walks out of the concert because someone was filming him, or when he was spewing out his political opinions regarding the war etc, I will feel a bit robbed of my concert experience.

He can do all this at a press interview or something, but doing it at concerts are a little bit bad taste, in my opinion.

Nonetheless I still love listening to his Chopin repertoires and still regard him as a great pianist. I think the international piano community still has high regards for him too. 

So I don't see how Pogolerich is any worse off than this, if being opinionated is the only thing being judged for. He has made a pretty good name of himself in the past with his Ravel interpretations ...

[pencilart3]

He's a brilliant pianist, but if I'm one of the audience where he walks out of the concert because someone was filming him (...) I will feel a bit robbed of my concert experience.

He can do all this at a press interview or something, but doing it at concerts are a little bit bad taste, in my opinion.

Well do you know why? Because people were filming him and putting it on youtube. Then when he went to the recording studio and cd maker/distributor (or whatever he uses), they said no because it was "already on youtube". So he was loosing a ton of money that way. Then, at the concert, he asked people specifically to not film him (because they had filmed him before), and when he glanced up during the concert, there they were filming him.

I agree, Krystian Zimerman along with Rafal Blechacz are the two best.

[rubinsteinmad]

I agree, Krystian Zimerman along with Rafal Blechacz are the two best.

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, and though Pogorelich may be good, I don't think it's good to say that the reason Dang Thai Son won was ONLY because of political reasons. I mean, Dang Thai Son plays more beautiful. Pogorelich had a more creative approach, but it didn't really sound that pretty his way, in my opinion. The Ballade #2 was kind of dull (well, Chopin wrote it that way, but Zimmerman makes it quite interesting, so Pogorelich doesn't really have an excuse )

And also, Dang Thai Son won the competition right after Zimmerman won. So when Pogorelich said the reason Dang Thai Son won was only because of some political bull****, he's almost also saying that Zimmerman only won because of some political bull****. Which makes me suspect that Pogorelich was making that part up:.

Just listen to Zimmerman's Ballade #4. To me, and to most people, he plays far better than anyone else on that piece. I like Nelson Friere's also, but he doesn't have as many dynamics as Zimmerman.   So yeah.  There's at least 1 reason Pogorelich didn't get into the finals.

[sabtan]

Well do you know why? Because people were filming him and putting it on youtube. Then when he went to the recording studio and cd maker/distributor (or whatever he uses), they said no because it was "already on youtube". So he was loosing a ton of money that way. Then, at the concert, he asked people specifically to not film him (because they had filmed him before), and when he glanced up during the concert, there they were filming him.

I agree, Krystian Zimerman along with Rafal Blechacz are the two best.

Yeah I know that. Still leaves a sour feeling for the rest of the audience who didn't do so.
90% of the audience paid money to see him ( and knowing him he'll be charging premium) so it's a bit unfair that he walks out. But I think at the end he did finish it , just without an encore.

There was another concert(s) where he played in the US and let out a few spews about the atrocity of war and many of the audiences walked out.

Like I said,  he may be a douchebag but he's still a good pianist.

Yes, Zimmerman and Blechacz are one of the few best pianists up there. I also think Kissin is up there too (in my personal taste, think Kissin has a better interpretation of the Chopin works than Blechacz. Maybe the latter is still young in the industry )

[diomedes]

Wait, so zimerman goes on stage and lectures the audience on politics? I had read that he's a bit off his rocker, but that's remarkable.

[sabtan]

He's done that numerous times.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/05/zime-m11.html

My piano teacher was in one of the ones in Santa Barbara, and of course the rich people in the audience stormed out.

Like I said, to me, it's bad taste. But oh well, that's just him.
He hasn't  been playing in the US since.

[pencilart3]

I just paid $20 to see Zimerman last week, I was almost hoping for a huge storm from him, maybe some pistol fire into the audience....

Just kidding, he did awesome.

[rubinsteinmad]

He hasn't  been playing in the US since.

Maybe that's why the only concerts with superstar pianists in my area are by musicless people such as Bang Bang (personally, though, I don't really think he bangs as much as some other pianists. I just think he's really musicless )

[pencilart3]

Yes, Zimmerman and Blechacz are one of the few best pianists up there. I also think Kissin is up there too (in my personal taste, think Kissin has a better interpretation of the Chopin works than Blechacz. Maybe the latter is still young in the industry )

I think I like Blechacz quite a bit better than Kissin. I think Rafal is very precise and clear. Have you heard his recordings from his 24 preludes CD? They're magnificent! In every piece he plays, no note is forgotten. He is very precise and musical. I think Evgeny just doesn't have this quality. We can agree to disagree though   

< Talk about precise.

[28843253]

I just paid $20 to see Zimerman last week, I was almost hoping for a huge storm from him, maybe some pistol fire into the audience....

Just kidding, he did awesome.

I must ask, where on earth can I put down my $20 to hear Zimerman play??

[sabtan]

Guessing it was student price. 

Yeah I agree to disagree pencilart.  I guess just depends on what we are looking for.
To me , Zimmerman is still the benchmark for Chopin. Like I said, as bonkers as he can be, but he does do good music 

[pencilart3]

I must ask, where on earth can I put down my $20 to hear Zimerman play??

In Rome. Also in the very very very very very very back WAAAYYYY on the side....

BUT IT'S ZIMERMAN RIGHT!

Guessing it was student price. 

Nope. That was the price for everyone.

[schumaniac]

Back on topic?

Pogorelich was one of the greats, for sure. He played and recorded everything- Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Ravel, Prokofiev..... he was in this "great" state for a long time, but that changed in the late 90s/2000s. His wife (and teacher) died, I believe. He himself had health issues too. So I think he experienced a lot of trauma, and he retired for a few years in the early 2000s, to design jewelry.
Now he's back on stage, but his playing has completely changed. Everything he plays is slow, and ponderous, and accented; he has good musical intentions, but everything is blown out, every inner voice and dynamic nuance/variation is exaggerated. (with the exception of some pieces- his Brahms Paganini Variations aren't half bad. But the majority of the things after 2000 are just horrible.)

[josh93248]

I pretty much agree with Schumaniac, I generally don't like his newer stuff. But jeseus CHRIST was he good back in the day. Thanks pencilart for posting his Gaspard, I have listened to his Scarbo I don't know how many times but I think on a different, maybe better version.

[invictious]

I thought I should chime in here. I recently went to a recital of his where he played some juicy works.

The recital was thoroughly disappointing. The fact that he played with music did not seriously bother me. However, I felt that he did not make any attempts to engage the audience with the music. It felt like I paid to watch him sight-read an hour and half of music, as apparent from the beginning when he played Chopin's Nocturne Op. 48 No. 1. In general, his over-pedalling obscured the music. The balancing of the dynamics between LH and RH was also unsatisfying, as most of the times his LH overpowered his RH, leading to a muddied interpretation of Rachmaninov's second piano sonata.

I felt that there was no attempt to colour the music when he played Scriabin, and the whole thing just felt like a perfunctory run-through of the pieces. He finished off with Islamey with a slower tempo. That tempo would have been enjoyable but for the over-pedalling and poor balancing of dynamics between the LH and RH. His encore pieces of Chopin's nocturnes were also equally lackluster.

Then of course, it was not a big venue, and it probably was just a practice run for him.

[josh93248]

I guess it's just a shame he deteriorated. Still, I think he was great, goes to show that as much as ability can go up, it can come back down again. Sigh...

[minor9th]

I'm so glad I heard him in his prime three times in the early/mid 80s. Among other pieces, he gave unforgettable performances of Beethoven's Op.111, Ravel's Gaspard (possibly better than his CD), and Rachmaninov's Sonata No.2 (original version). Then I saw him about 10 years ago--not even the same pianist. In fact, I didn't even recognize him when he sauntered on stage--I thought he was some well-dressed person who was either going to make an announcement or final adjustments to the piano!!

[expressman70]

Honestly from people as Pogorelich, I admire this mess that he portrays. To me its art. Its modernistic, not appealing to average ear. But I love it. If someone would ask what is the difference between his playing an average amatuer without proper music education: It is the fact that the knowledge that I have about his prior years, and context of his prior playing adds a light of non-conformity. I dont know why, but I like it. His Mephisto for instance is messed up, but its full of raw deep emotions.