A different kind of rubato? I need your help.

[ashtonm]

Robert gives a great explanation of rubato, however it seems to be more from a romantic period perspective (Correct me if i'm wrong):

In short, you "steal time and give it back." However, this doesn't seem to be the case with more jazzy compositions. Here's an example of rubato that I'm actually looking to adopt:

Another example that I like:

Both examples seem to steal time but NOT give it back... Is my observation correct? They both lose the "beat" at times as well, and to romantic period purists this would be considered "wrong." However, I personally love the sound of it, and it's something I want to adopt, but I'm not exactly sure what is going on in order to adopt it.

What are some tips in being able to play this style of rubato?

I can upload a recording of my playing if that helps.

Thank you,

Ashton

[j_menz]

Rubato is only one way of playing with time.

Aside from the fact that compositions can have changes in time signature (sometimes frequent), there are fermatas, accellerandos, ritardendos, pauses and temporary tempo changes that also come into play.

First step is to look at the score, then see what he is doing with it. Then play around and use your ears.

[werq34ac]

I never liked the idea of "giving and taking time" I think it's heavily inaccurate and a far too mechanical way of thinking of rubato. No, your Chopin nocturne should not follow a metronome. No, when you take time, you do not need to speed up in order to make up for it. All you have to do is return to the original tempo. Thus, you take time, and never really give it back.

[ashtonm]

Rubato is only one way of playing with time.

Aside from the fact that compositions can have changes in time signature (sometimes frequent), there are fermatas, accellerandos, ritardendos, pauses and temporary tempo changes that also come into play.

First step is to look at the score, then see what he is doing with it. Then play around and use your ears.

That is very true! The score I'm reading is a transcription of the piece and whoever did it certainly didn't provide all of the markings, so the entire time I'm thinking Sakamoto was only using rubato when in fact he was clearly using other methods of altering time! You've improved my amateur ear and interest in more theory. Thank you.

I never liked the idea of "giving and taking time" I think it's heavily inaccurate and a far too mechanical way of thinking of rubato. No, your Chopin nocturne should not follow a metronome. No, when you take time, you do not need to speed up in order to make up for it. All you have to do is return to the original tempo. Thus, you take time, and never really give it back.

I agree, very much so. When I was practicing rubato to the metronome it was just far too mechanical, and I think it's more artful when you're not concerned as much with ensuring time is "given back", but rather returning to the tempo.

Ashton

[pianoworthy]

I think of rubato like I think of playing swing in jazz. It's something you feel in your bones. You have to listen to people who do it well. Arthur Rubinstein and other Polish pianists tend to be particularly good at rubato, Russian pianists tend to be very good at it as well! I think trying to describe as something like "stealing time" and other things like that isn't all that helpful. It's like trying to describe the color red, you relate it to things you can see that are red. Just listen to it, and learn what it sounds like.