Islamey-Lisitsa

[abel2]

How does her version stack up to othe piano giants.  For example, I hear Berezovsky's referenced as the best.  In my opinion,  unless I'm listening to a different recording,  his doesn't come close to hers...Thoughts?

[le_poete_mourant]

who cares? You're never going to decide whose recording is the best. It's a silly premise that goes nowhere time and time again on here. If it's your personal favorite, then that's fine. You don't need us to validate it.

Cziffra's and Bronfman's are good, too.

[theholygideons]

Lisitsa's playing is completely lucklustre and does not convey any originality. She only plays these hard pieces to attract more people on Youtube. Absolutely dreadful, her technique is very sloppy and full of unnecessary rubato.

[perfect_pitch]

Lisitsa's playing is completely lucklustre and does not convey any originality. She only plays these hard pieces to attract more people on Youtube. Absolutely dreadful, her technique is very sloppy and full of unnecessary rubato.

Well, that's your opinion. No offense, but her version of the Totentanz for solo piano is probably the best out there... bar none.

[j_menz]

Mily wrote quite a bit of very good music. Islamey, it seems to me, may once of had some interest, but really hasn't aged well. It's now a rather dated period piece - a mere museum curiosity dragged out presumably because of it's technical reputation rather than because anyone has any conviction about it.

Frankly anyone who plays it in lieu of his better (or more enduringly interesting) works does themselves, Mily  and the listener a grave disservice and gets marked down in my book for even trying.

[outin]

Mily wrote quite a bit of very good music. Islamey, it seems to me, may once of had some interest, but really hasn't aged well. It's now a rather dated period piece - a mere museum curiosity dragged out presumably because of it's technical reputation rather than because anyone has any conviction about it.

Frankly anyone who plays it in lieu of his better (or more enduringly interesting) works does themselves, Mily  and the listener a grave disservice and gets marked down in my book for even trying.

Couldn't agree more!

[visitor]

@ ^  - word.

"...While the Piano Sonata No. 2 lacks the overt exoticism of Islamey one could be forgiven for thinking it was cast from a Lisztian mould. Indeed, all the works recorded here look west of the Urals for their inspiration – to Chopin in particular. But whatever their origins or leanings, these bravura pieces demand fearless interpreters....All doubts evaporate minutes into the sonata. The measured, quasi-baroque flavour of the opening statement is light years away from the free-flowing, rhapsodic pianism one might expect from such a work. But there’s magic in the air, and Balakirev transforms this austere theme into music of real feeling and rare delight....
The second movement – a mazurka adapted from an early sonata – is no less appealing. Once again that formal opening gives way to music – and playing – of disarming brilliance. That’s not as paradoxical as it sounds, for restraint in music that lends itself to self-aggrandisement is most welcome, especially when there are so many details to be unearthed along the way. That’s certainly true of the Intermezzo..."

[outin]

I'm afraid the horrible tinny piano sound of Paley's recording doesn't really do justice to the piece. Danny Driver's Hyperion recording is far superior...

[visitor]

I'm afraid the horrible tinny piano sound of Paley's recording doesn't really do justice to the piece. Danny Driver's Hyperion recording is far superior...

agreed. thought i did a decent search but could not find a video of it/ i liked. 

[outin]

agreed. thought i did a decent search but could not find a video of it/ i liked. 

Seems not everything under copyright has found it's way to Youtube yet 

[pianoman53]

I actually like the piece, but her playing does not do it any justice. She has loud and soft as colors.

[diomedes]

Alexander Paleys work is very peculiar to my ears. The piano was really really bad, I don't usually object to sound in comparison to others either. Very unfortunate, must have been a titanic effort to learn all of that. His playing wasn't always convincing and with projects like that I don't see conviction from the onset because it's likely one poor pianist is required to make a miracle happen before a deadline and be convincing at the same time. But the most entertaining part, the liner notes really have personality. He clearly didn't like all of the music he was playing and wanted to be honest. I don't remember which piece he was writing about but one of them he calls "just trash".

There's some good music in Balakirevs output, I tried finding some and have to try again when I get the chance.

I personally see nothing wrong with Islamey it is convincing as a concept, many true artists felt compelled to dedicate hours on end to it alone, Arrau, Pletnev, Ogdon, even Scriabin and his messed up poor hand to mention a few.

I plan to do it, but it'll be a blistering amount of work.
Lisitsa? Evidently she does a good job of it. No point searching for the meaning of life in the wrong place, though.

[outin]

Alexander Paleys work is very peculiar to my ears. The piano was really really bad, I don't usually object to sound in comparison to others either. Very unfortunate, must have been a titanic effort to learn all of that. His playing wasn't always convincing and with projects like that I don't see conviction from the onset because it's likely one poor pianist is required to make a miracle happen before a deadline and be convincing at the same time. But the most entertaining part, the liner notes really have personality. He clearly didn't like all of the music he was playing and wanted to be honest. I don't remember which piece he was writing about but one of them he calls "just trash".

I never read the liner notes before, but I just did. And you are right, they are entertaining 

I must say that I cannot agree with him on some of them. He thinks Islamey is a masterpiece. I don't. But it may be different when you are a pianists seeing this piece as a challenge. I judge it only as listener.

[thalbergmad]

An average piece of music played by an average pianist.

Balakirev did a lot better and hopefully Lisitsa will go and destroy someone else.

Thal

[rubinsteinmad]

Lisitsa's playing is completely lucklustre and does not convey any originality. She only plays these hard pieces to attract more people on Youtube. Absolutely dreadful, her technique is very sloppy and full of unnecessary rubato.

You must be a fellow American. Nothing wrong with that But there are many American piano players, i. e. the musical ones with musical teachers, who like and use tons of rubato. I used to  have a teacher who said not to go on YouTube because I already had a good example (her). She was really snobby, claiming that "in high school she went to Curtis, and for college she went to Juillard because the weather was better in NY".   This was for a Chopin Nocturne. She loathed rubatos of any kind. Called them "European style playing". WTEH.   So she's saying most everyone in Curtis (in Philly, PA, US) is European?

Besides, in Europe they have the Hanover Conservatory and the Moscow Conservatory and the Petersburg Conservatory and Royal School in London.

Besides, Juillard's teachers are really smart and musical. Most of the students, too! (but not all). And since these teachers are so smart, they know what to say to a clueless piano student who does good things at totally senseless places. "Don't play rubatos in Chopin or Beethoven". "Don't play like an European." "Keep Bach metronomic. No ritards at the end. Also, no pedal except at the places you don't need it. Don't do that much shaping. At the cadences, make them loud." "Beethoven's pianos could not crescendo. Don't do a crescendo in measure 81." "Beethoven did not write anything there, so you're not allowed to change dynamics there." "I hung out with Brahms last Friday. He eats heavy f***. So if you don't play those Paganini Variations like heavy f***, it's wrong." LOL   And then these clueless students become music teachers with tons of students because of their resume. And the sh*t is passed on down.

Another thing about my old teacher: she claims that there is no Liszt Etude harder than any Chopin etude. "Oh, yes, Not a single one!" Maybe she's jealous some people are easily, and musically, playing Chasse-neige and Feux Follets. She said (or admitted ) at a previous lesson that she had hand surgery in college after practicing a Chopin Etude. Guess what? On YT, there's videos of little 8 yo girls playing every single note in that etude. No need to play musically. My teacher doesn't play musically either. Now, I'm not saying Chopin Etudes are easier than Liszt's. All I'm saying is, that statement that "There's no Liszt Etude harder than any Chopin Etude", is exaggerated.  

Oh, yeah, I wish I had Lisitsa's musicality.  :oI wonder why people dislike her playing. For her technique, I heard her play "Die Stadt", and those arpeggios were so floating/flowing.   Pletnev's musicality is even better, to me . Just listen to him play Tchaikovsky's Romance Op. 5. Rubatos are all over the place, without sounding forced. When I play rubatos, now, it sounds so forced. Before, rubatos came naturally. But now, that I learned from that clueless teacher who forced every student to play along with her (except those who were lucky enough to be given pieces that she couldn't handle ), most of the rubatos are ones I put in the score. They do not come to me naturally anymore I',m not saying that I used to be Lisitsa or Pletnev All I'm saying is, avoid teachers who tell you not to use rubato, in a Chopin piece.

[le_poete_mourant]

You must be a fellow American. Nothing wrong with that But there are many American piano players, i. e. the musical ones with musical teachers, who like and use tons of rubato. I used to  have a teacher who said not to go on YouTube because I already had a good example (her). She was really snobby, claiming that "in high school she went to Curtis, and for college she went to Juillard because the weather was better in NY".   This was for a Chopin Nocturne. She loathed rubatos of any kind. Called them "European style playing". WTEH.   So she's saying most everyone in Curtis (in Philly, PA, US) is European?

Besides, in Europe they have the Hanover Conservatory and the Moscow Conservatory and the Petersburg Conservatory and Royal School in London.

Besides, Juillard's teachers are really smart and musical. Most of the students, too! (but not all). And since these teachers are so smart, they know what to say to a clueless piano student who does good things at totally senseless places. "Don't play rubatos in Chopin or Beethoven". "Don't play like an European." "Keep Bach metronomic. No ritards at the end. Also, no pedal except at the places you don't need it. Don't do that much shaping. At the cadences, make them loud." "Beethoven's pianos could not crescendo. Don't do a crescendo in measure 81." "Beethoven did not write anything there, so you're not allowed to change dynamics there." "I hung out with Brahms last Friday. He eats heavy f***. So if you don't play those Paganini Variations like heavy f***, it's wrong." LOL   And then these clueless students become music teachers with tons of students because of their resume. And the sh*t is passed on down.

Another thing about my old teacher: she claims that there is no Liszt Etude harder than any Chopin etude. "Oh, yes, Not a single one!" Maybe she's jealous some people are easily, and musically, playing Chasse-neige and Feux Follets. She said (or admitted ) at a previous lesson that she had hand surgery in college after practicing a Chopin Etude. Guess what? On YT, there's videos of little 8 yo girls playing every single note in that etude. No need to play musically. My teacher doesn't play musically either. Now, I'm not saying Chopin Etudes are easier than Liszt's. All I'm saying is, that statement that "There's no Liszt Etude harder than any Chopin Etude", is exaggerated.  

Oh, yeah, I wish I had Lisitsa's musicality.  :oI wonder why people dislike her playing. For her technique, I heard her play "Die Stadt", and those arpeggios were so floating/flowing.   Pletnev's musicality is even better, to me . Just listen to him play Tchaikovsky's Romance Op. 5. Rubatos are all over the place, without sounding forced. When I play rubatos, now, it sounds so forced. Before, rubatos came naturally. But now, that I learned from that clueless teacher who forced every student to play along with her (except those who were lucky enough to be given pieces that she couldn't handle ), most of the rubatos are ones I put in the score. They do not come to me naturally anymore I',m not saying that I used to be Lisitsa or Pletnev All I'm saying is, avoid teachers who tell you not to use rubato, in a Chopin piece.

Jesus mate, you sound completely unhinged.... Nobody said anything about not using rubato in Chopin or even Islamey. There was a complaint about unnecessary rubato, nothing more. Sounds to me like you have some unresolved issues with your teacher. May I recommend you to a great couples counselor? 😂

For the record I think Lisitsa is a crap pianist but also a crap human being.

[abel2]

Jesus mate, you sound completely unhinged.... Nobody said anything about not using rubato in Chopin or even Islamey. There was a complaint about unnecessary rubato, nothing more. Sounds to me like you have some unresolved issues with your teacher. May I recommend you to a great couples counselor? 😂

For the record I think Lisitsa is a crap pianist but also a crap human being.

If you're referring to her Twitter scandal, she was using satire to bring light to the situation her people were undergoing, and her posts were mistaken as racism and hatred. At least, that's how I see it. And she's not a bad pianist. Very few of them can manage the repertoire she does.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Her video is proof that good technique is nothing without a musical imagination. (And actually, her technique is ropey in places - the coda is a mess, for example.) Credit to her for not hiding stuff behind the pedal, but the performance is glib, lacking in drama and nuance, unimaginative, and her tone is consistently thin. I think (if we're going to compare it to renditions by truly great pianists) that realistically speaking it is close, in that context, to being an awful performance.

[pianoworthy]

Lisitsa's playing is great. You guys need to lighten up a little I think. 

[ronde_des_sylphes]

It's dull, and devoid of artistry. That performance runs contrary to everything I hold dear in music. I would have switched it off but I wanted to be sure I got to the end. Then I lightened up and expunged the (rapidly fading) memory of it by listening to Cziffra, who plays the piece on a completely different level altogether.  

.. though I could have equally chosen, inter alia, Katchen, Gavrilov's 70s(?) LP version, Terence Judd, or Barere if I wanted pure entertainment..

[rubinsteinmad]

Her video is proof that good technique is nothing without a musical imagination. (And actually, her technique is ropey in places - the coda is a mess, for example.) Credit to her for not hiding stuff behind the pedal, but the performance is glib, lacking in drama and nuance, unimaginative, and her tone is consistently thin. I think (if we're going to compare it to renditions by truly great pianists) that realistically speaking it is close, in that context, to being an awful performance.

But Islamey itself is a horrible piece in terms of being interesting, right? It's probably mighty interesting to the person who can handle it (but how should I know, I can't do it ), but not to the listener. Also, I kind of like thinner tone on some pieces such as Brahms' Paganini Etudes  . But Islamey is different, and I've never heard it live, so I wouldn't know. But still, I think some of this "unimaginative"ness should be blamed on Balakirev himself Not saying I don't like Balakirev's music . I love some of his pieces, especially his Sonata #2 and La Fileuse and Fisherman's Song, and a few of his transcriptions. (BTW, those are the only pieces I know by him in my mind)

[cuberdrift]

What about the version by Mr. Vladimir Horowitz?

[abel2]

It's dull, and devoid of artistry. That performance runs contrary to everything I hold dear in music. I would have switched it off but I wanted to be sure I got to the end. Then I lightened up and expunged the (rapidly fading) memory of it by listening to Cziffra, who plays the piece on a completely different level altogether.  

.. though I could have equally chosen, inter alia, Katchen, Gavrilov's 70s(?) LP version, Terence Judd, or Barere if I wanted pure entertainment..

Dear Lord don't get me started on Cziffra. Could you even tell it was Islamey by the end or did he embellish (ruin)  it till it was basically a different piece like he always does...?

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Embellishing it is hardly a crime: it's a Romantic showpiece and hardly textually sacrosanct. If he did something like that to Beethoven sonatas people would be more entitled to take offence (and his Beethoven sonata recordings were fairly sedate, peculiarly enough). On the other hand Lisitsa barely even manages to generate the echo effect normally used on the first page, In her case I suspect lack of imagination, and this perpetual "forward, forward" attitude she has which seems to militate against slow and quiet playing. (Her middle section isn't exactly languid, for example - compare Pogorelich live Carnegie Hall 1990!) But each to their own.

[pytheamateur]

If you're referring to her Twitter scandal, she was using satire to bring light to the situation her people were undergoing, and her posts were mistaken as racism and hatred. At least, that's how I see it. And she's not a bad pianist. Very few of them can manage the repertoire she does.

Could you tell us s bit more about the Twitter scandal please?

[theholygideons]

Cziffra is the best at these gypsy-like, rhythmic tunes. He accelerates when the music goes goes upwards, whereas modern day Russian pianists always hold back the tempo during climaxes and therefore make everything sound homogenized. Dreadful, I say.

[thalbergmad]

Embellishing it is hardly a crime: it's a Romantic showpiece and hardly textually sacrosanct.

Spot on old boy. The score is an idea, not a command.

Thal

[le_poete_mourant]

If you're referring to her Twitter scandal, she was using satire to bring light to the situation her people were undergoing, and her posts were mistaken as racism and hatred. At least, that's how I see it. And she's not a bad pianist. Very few of them can manage the repertoire she does.

First of all, I think you're wrong in that the repertoire she plays is managed by scads of pianists. Shes hardly exceptional in what she plays. In fact her choices are safe and downright boring. Does she ever break out of the generic, typical choices? You could probably throw a rock in Moscow and hit a person who can play everything she does. And more.

Secondly, I'm aware she thought she was being satirical, but I thought it was pretty low brow and not particularly thoughtful commentary. And certainly it was tasteless. Regardless of that, what soured me on her more was the way she handled the fallout. I thought it was completely lacking in grace and was the epitome of unprofessionalism. Whiny and entitled is how she came off. I don't have much sympathy for people so intent on playing the victim.

But you're clearly a fan, so I doubt I'll convince you on that score.

[pytheamateur]

Quite surprised by her Twitter posts.  I have always thought of her as a pragmatic businesswoman who is good at pleasing audience in the West.  Saying what she said could only harm her career.  Did she not realise that?  Was she too naive about the West? I do believe these are her genuine beliefs.  A lot of people in Russia (and some parts of Ukraine) really think like that.  I'm sure she only wanted to speak out against something she thought as unfair (the West's stance on the conflict in Ukraine).  It is part of her personality.  She could have kept quiet if she was only interested in making money in the West.