trills in Chopin

[rmbarbosa]

It is well known that Chopin considered the trill to commence on the upper auxiliary.
And when the trill is preceded by a little note identic to the principal one, then the trill must commence on the same note and not on the upper auxiliary.
In the Nocturne posth in C sharp minor, after the chords, there is a G and an immediate trill in F.
My doubt is if we must commence this trill in F (FGFGFG....) or we must play the G and commence the trill also in G (G - GFGFGF....).
There is another trill in D, preceeded by two little notes CD. I used to play CDEDEDED..... but I dont know if this is correct or if I must play CDEDEDED....(first note of the trill on D or on E.
Can someone help me?
Thanks.
 

[mjames]

eh I dont feel like looking up the sheet music, too lazy. can you post some screens?

But eh when it comes to romantic music, you don't have to be so strict and perfect about trills. It's not baroque music. It's more about the effect and sick awesome sounds. =D

[iansinclair]

Don't be a fanatic.  Play the trill as it sounds best to you.  In romantic music, it doesn't have to be in strict time, nor does it have to be at constant speed, nor does it have to begin on this note or that one.  It's what it sounds like to your artistic judgement.

That's not true for Baroque -- but Chopin is hardly baroque!

[pencilart3]

Chopin is hardly baroque!

Chopin is not baroque in the least. What on earth made you think that?

[themeandvariation]

Yes, that idea of whether the trill begins on the auxiliary  note or the principal note does refer to a Baroque practice that Chopin it appears favored (though perhaps not in All cases). Though the amount of notes in the trill is not specified in his situation - only that the last note of the trill should Not be  the same as the melodic note which follows (in keeping with this idea of 'non-redundancy' )
 On the version i am currently looking at (Schirmer's) , The first trill on f # is preceded by 2 grace notes: e and f# - meaning that the trill does indeed start on the auxiliary (g#) note… The same applies to the  second trill for the d#.. trill beginning on the auxiliary -E   (where your edition does include the grace notes) -  … It is obvious with the grace notes included that this is an example 'spelled out' by Chopin about his approach to starting  trills… This doesn't mean that he adopted all the conventions of playing 'Baroque', obviously… But he did love Bach…

[rmbarbosa]

Thank you all for your answers.
In my edition, the first trill is not preceeded by grace notes. And when I listen the performings of many pianists, there are no grace notes preceeding this first trill... and in urtext neither...
I do know trills in romantics are not played like in the baroque. But Chopin usually trills with de auxiliary note first. So, if I play the first trill, in F sharp, beggining with the upper note, without those grace notes I`ll shall be repeating de G. G - GF- GF - GF..... With the 2 grace notes, however, it sounds much better...

[adodd81802]

Hi I have attached what I believe you're referring too.

So in the first part (assuming the #s here) i Hold the G, then trill the F (F-G) then proceed to E-F-G

In the second trill, I play the last C of the bar then grace note C then immediately trill the D (D-E) rather than playing C D then D trill (D-E)

One thing to note with both this song and his Nocturne OP 72, was that they were posth publications.  They may not have been properly finished, correctly noted (OP 72 in particular have some major differences in some publications). I have found with both of these songs the timings of some parts seem up for debate.

I wouldn't concern yourself too much with the smallest of differences with these pieces, you can hear a lot of different versions online so see what you like and maybe take inspiration from it while staying true to the notation.