Daily practice for kids - how much?

[dcstudio]

wow... what were we talking about.

I guess I got miffed when he said  one moe time  and get it dcstudio

I still don't get it

[keypeg]

I guess I got miffed when he said  one more time  and get it dcstudio

Being poked a few times, esp. publicly, will have that effect.  It's easy for those of us who are not in poking range (I saw the pokes).

[keypeg]

What it's about ...... What it's supposed to be about - is the topic.  "Daily practice for kids - how much?", being asked by a parent of a child who is a given age, and has had x time taking lessons.  What it ended up being about later on was the big picture of piano or maybe music lessons in general.  I debated about this, because it was off topic, but in some ways it does relate, so I got involved in that secondary topic.

What it became about was the music teaching world in general, and that there are things that are not good, and what might be good instead.  However, this seemed rather black and white, with the impression of just one solution, one right way.  Maybe that was in order to keep things simple in this kind of medium.  However, I decided to address the idea by making a broader overview.  I knew it was a lot, but anything less seemed more of a useless caricature.  

There has not been a single response to anything that I wrote.  I felt like writing to the topic, but then realized it would probably get the same kind of silence as anything else I wrote.  I looked at Bronnestam's post, your posts, my posts - there is barely a sign of anyone listening to anyone else.  So is there a point of writing?

That's where I was last night.  In fact, I was probably where everyone else is - if you write, either you'll be ignored, or your post will become part of a narrower agenda.  And that's why there is all the silence.  (Spates of posts with no listening or real responding is also a kind of silence).

[dcstudio]

Daily practice?  we got that far away... wow... poor guy just wanted to know if his kid was practicing enough...  I think I took a break and answered him a ways back...then I jumped right back in the game...


that's a question that really does not have an answer that won't be debated heavily...lol..especially with all the expertise we have around here.

.

If I am wandering around this forum in 25 years and somebody complains that I dropped them or yelled at them, or I made them practice scales and argeggios and ruined their musical career...  I might have to get.... mean...lol...

[keypeg]

Daily practice?  we got that far away... wow... poor guy just wanted to know if his kid was practicing enough...  I think I took a break and answered him a ways back...then I jumped right back in the game...


that's a question that really does not have an answer that won't be debated heavily...lol..especially with all the expertise we have around here.

This was my answer:

How much someone practices is not as important as how he practices.  If he enjoys what he is doing, is motivated, and if his teacher has no concerns about what he hears and sees when teaching your child, then all is well.

Sometimes we have the idea that one must work long and hard, and if that isn't happening, then it is a defect of character - "laziness".  But in fact, the intelligent way to go through life is efficiently.  Another attribute you want as an adult is balance in life, and knowing how to find it.

I can't see that it would get debated, heavily or otherwise. 

[dcstudio]

This was my answer:I can't see that it would get debated, heavily or otherwise. 

....people debate finger numbers here...   just about anything that can be stated concerning this instrument will find people who want to argue.

that's really what we like to do... battle!

[keypeg]

....people debate finger numbers here...   just about anything that can be stated concerning this instrument will find people who want to argue.

I have written specific things.  Maybe I wasn't clear enough.  What about what I quoted, which was in answer to the question in this thread?

The finger numbers issue is an entirely different thread.  And in that thread I did not see a debate, a saw a discussion and exploration.  You have a self-taught student who is still discovering things, who has shared his discoveries and while it may appear to be teaching that is being done too early, that is only one side of it.  As a teacher I would grab that discovery, draw the principle out of it, bring it further, and plant some seeds.  At a future time, it might gel.  In fact, that is what I saw happening.

Back to THIS thread.  What about what I wrote about the subject - the quote.  Plausible or not?

[keypeg]

At least that's what I hope I saw happening.   

[bronnestam]

Hey - I tried to write a reply to the OP, but I admit I did not read the rest of the postings here particularly well. I really thought I DID write a reply which was on-topic, but perhaps I used too many words? I always do. People are so lazy in these days, they cannot read anything that is significantly longer than a tweet.

[falala]

I'd say the amount you're getting him to do is good. It's enough to make decent progress at that age and level.

It's not enough to set the world on fire and be the next Lang Lang, but then if you wanted to push him that way you'd need to balance that against the risk of making him hate it altogether. If you can get an amount ticking over that allows him to continue to progress without that happening, that's a better bet in the long term IMO.

An hour a day during school holidays is actually really good. I'm used to most of my students coming back to the first lesson of term saying they haven't touched the piano in weeks.

[louispodesta]

Do you know what I get from these recent posts, "dcstudio?"  I sense a reluctance to criticize a fellow piano teacher.

So, you can say what you want to say, but the fact remains that, absent (Oh my God!) Asian American students, and also adult beginners, most of your "friends in arms" would be out of a job.

AND, FOR A REASON!!

[louispodesta]

And, for a final note, "dcstudio":  I proffer the following:  In 1971, the top jazz pianist at NTSU was Jim Milne, who was the pianist for the top Lab (laboratory) Band in the school.

He was not allowed to teach jazz piano on campus, for real.  I took one lesson from him, and was not impressed.  That is/not the point.

The point is, re practice schedules/time and normal piano pedagogy, is that he taught all of his students had to learn every scale, broken chord, and arpeggio in all twelve key signatures.  Many decades later, I learned that this was Arnold Schonberg's philosophy, who just so happened to be the "Darling " of NTSU at the time.

The bottom line is that, even if it is Jazz Piano, the person who is feeding you their sincere felt words is doing the same for every other student, and it definitely delineates from a specific/former teacher pedagogical  philosophy.

What is wrong with that?"

If it/she (the teacher), does not get the "Human Being," in question, from point A to point B, then all your teacher has done, along with a couple of hundred thousand (U.S.) others, is to take your money!

[dcstudio]

 

[slane]

When my daughter was 9 she did 15 mins pers day. Anymore would have been a complete screaming match. Although, now she's in the habit of doing her practice before school she could do more, because she's not tired, but there isn't time!
Now she's 11 she does 25mins. And she'll do 30 from next year.
Of course more is more...upto a point.
I was made to do 30 right from when I was 7. I wonder what the heck I could have been doing in those 30mins?? Playing John Thompsons easiest piano course for 30 minutes??? But that was the prescription back then.
My mothere used to stand behind me and and chant 1,2,3,1,2,3 and if I got stuck on a note she'd sing NNN or oooo or eeee depending on which beat I was on until I yealled at her. What exactly did she think she was teaching me about rythmn by doing that?

Hmm.. but I digress. 15 minutes or several hours if you're a tiger mum. My daughter says I'm more of a hedgehog mum. True quote!

[slane]

Ok. Here's the answer from a very experienced teacher.
https://elissamilne.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/examination-rules-how-many-hours-practice-does-it-take/


She says it takes 100 hours of practice to go from one AMEB grade to another and maintain the same score. Usually we think of a grade taking about a year. In a school year there are 40 weeks (12 weeks of holidays) which = 2.5 hours per week which equals 30mins per day with a one day off and no practice on lesson days.

There we are! If you want your kid to move up the grades faster, or get a better score, then they need to do more than that. Of course that's assuming they have a good teacher who teaches them how to practice, presents them with enough diverse repertoire to teach them the skills for that level and knows how to keep a kid engaged.

She also syas
"2. Practice has to happen every day. Even if it’s just for three minutes. The act of commencing practice every day precedes the act of engaging in prolonged practice every day! Get your child into the habit of playing her or his instrument daily and to a certain extent the practice will take care of itself.

"

[ziomamusic]

30 min for 9 year old is enough. I dont even make a time limit with my students. I give them a certain amount of songs/exercises, and let them play all of them every day.