How do you practise and get better (those without teachers)?

[salim]

Just want to find out different ways I could try out and see which way would be best. I'm currently going through Alfred's Basic Adult Piano Course which is a series of books.. Not difficult, but I'm using it to improve my sight reading and learn scales, arpeggios and other stuff. I know everybody have their own ways and it might not work with me, but what do you do that helps you improve the most?

[josh93248]

Well, I don't really have a teacher. I guess I rely on a few things...

I have a plan of repertoire that I follow, working from the ground up that covers both a good and logical musical and technical progression.

I finger all my pieces before playing them which I find helps.

I rely on my ears a lot and try to really find every nuance I can.

I'm something of an instinctive player, by which I mean I rely on my ears and gut to tell me what I should do, I don't know, I'm just sensitive to flaws I think. Maybe not all of them but I think I get better or more fussy in finding and fixing them.

I try and read really carefully, especially at the beginning of working on a piece, to make sure I don't make any errors on that level either.

I always work on whatever problems come up in each session but I try not to obsess TOO much, though sometimes I do...

IDK what else, it's a broad question, anything else you want to know?

[salim]

I have a plan of repertoire that I follow, working from the ground up that covers both a good and logical musical and technical progression.

Do you play challenging pieces so that you eventually develop skills required to play those pieces, or do you stay in your comfort zone and progress by playing pieces that are within your current abilities but do require some new developments in skill?

And thanks ^^

[josh93248]

Do you play challenging pieces so that you eventually develop skills required to play those pieces, or do you stay in your comfort zone and progress by playing pieces that are within your current abilities but do require some new developments in skill?

And thanks ^^

Well, I decided that for a while I would work well within my abilities, both musical and technical and found that I learned a lot and refined my playing. There are few limits to how far even a basic piece can be taken really, I wanted to explore that a bit and see what I learned. I also wanted to be able to play pieces not like an amateur playing professional level pieces but like a professional taking the time to play some amateur level pieces. That's how I hope I sound anyway. You can look at some of my posts (not the OP) in "What are your pianistic ambitions?" They list what I'm working on and what I plan to work on.

I am planning and preparing to move on to more advanced repertoire though, in several months I should start work on several Chopin etudes, Schubert Impromptus and Shostakovich Preludes and Fugues, though it may be quite a while before I'm happy with them...

[adodd81802]

Hi Salim.

This is a good question and I can relate, as my original teacher was funded when I was younger by my dad. As time went by, that dried up and i found myself 10 years later with nothing official but a grade-2 qualification and some rusty fingers.

I took it upon myself recently to get a new teacher and had her assess me based on what I could play now (a few Chopin pieces and Clare de Lune) She said What I play is post grade 8, I was shocked.

Now I didn't need a teacher to enable me to physically play these pieces - why, because I loved playing them. I got parts incorrect over and over, i watched performances to understand how it should sound (not taking interpretation into account) and bought informative music that helped with some complex fingering. I probably took way longer to get there than had I had a teacher, and had I practiced correctly and consistently, but when becoming a professional pianist was clearly out of my scope, it's fair to say I lost some motivation.

What I would say is you can use logic, you have the internet at your hands, the only thing that holds you back is you. Within reason, yes don't expect to jump into Liszt pieces and play them perfectly, but you can hear pieces, you can read music you can physically know what is way out of your capability and what is maybe just outside... I would recommend taking that logic into account and play what you love to play, and keep pushing them boundaries.

You can, of course go down the totally opposite route and purchase the ABRSM books and work your way through the grades, whether you take the exams, or just prove it to yourself, they have the syllabus on the website that explains what is expected of you each exam, make yourself a mock exam, learn the pieces and see how you do, find your limit and keep pushing it.

I think the two things that make a teacher so invaluable is 1 - discipline. rather than hideaway from parts you struggle with, teachers bring you out your comfort zone and get you to play pieces that while you may not love, but will help you technically play the pieces you do enjoy at the end.
Two - Knowledge, If a person with degrees, qualifications and concert performances under their belt are telling you how to do something - they're telling you for a good reason! you can't easily obtain that 1-2-1 knowledge anywhere else. Think about what your end goal is with the piano and the time frame.

If you're setting yourself 50 years to play the hardest piece you've ever played, I believe you can push yourself, diary your progress, be logical with the way you learn without a teacher and still be satisfied with your own performance. I could go on and on, but i've probably lost your interest already!

Good luck. Feel free to message for more of my drivel!

[salim]

Well, I decided that for a while I would work well within my abilities, both musical and technical and found that I learned a lot and refined my playing. There are few limits to how far even a basic piece can be taken really, I wanted to explore that a bit and see what I learned. I also wanted to be able to play pieces not like an amateur playing professional level pieces but like a professional taking the time to play some amateur level pieces. That's how I hope I sound anyway. You can look at some of my posts (not the OP) in "What are your pianistic ambitions?" They list what I'm working on and what I plan to work on.

I am planning and preparing to move on to more advanced repertoire though, in several months I should start work on several Chopin etudes, Schubert Impromptus and Shostakovich Preludes and Fugues, though it may be quite a while before I'm happy with them...

Ah alright thanks

[salim]

You can, of course go down the totally opposite route and purchase the ABRSM books and work your way through the grades, whether you take the exams, or just prove it to yourself, they have the syllabus on the website that explains what is expected of you each exam, make yourself a mock exam, learn the pieces and see how you do, find your limit and keep pushing it.

Hmm I might get the ABRSM books and just try out a range of pieces and see how I do

I could go on and on, but i've probably lost your interest already!

lol not at all, thanks for your help!

[pianotv]

Well, I decided that for a while I would work well within my abilities, both musical and technical and found that I learned a lot and refined my playing. There are few limits to how far even a basic piece can be taken really, I wanted to explore that a bit and see what I learned. I also wanted to be able to play pieces not like an amateur playing professional level pieces but like a professional taking the time to play some amateur level pieces. That's how I hope I sound anyway. You can look at some of my posts (not the OP) in "What are your pianistic ambitions?" They list what I'm working on and what I plan to work on.

This!! I recently finished my grade 10 RCM, but my test went poorly and I didn't get a great mark, so I've been going back to easier repertoire. I think it's important to really master a piece at a lower level. What I found happened with my attempts at grade 10 repertoire is at times, I was just hanging on for dear life, hoping I could get all the notes right, and the musicality suffered, no matter how much time I spent at the piano.

That being said, I always like to have a challenge piece. So say if I'm working on three pieces, maybe two will be at a very do-able level, but one will be more difficult, and take longer to learn. That's how I like to stretch out of my comfort zone.

[coherence]

Some very good advice in this thread, especially the stuff about having sort of a "portfolio" of pieces at different levels -- often I am working on one to push my technical boundaries, one slightly easier to really refine your playing and work on interpretation, and one fun easy piece to make me feel good about myself

I'll also second the point that you should have a good sense of what exactly you want out of your practice. It's too easy to just sit down at the piano and play every day without ever feeling like you're making progress, just because you haven't answered for yourself the question: progress towards what?

I wrote an essay about "building effective practice habits" based on some of the research and case studies of professional musicians I'd read. It's a lot to sort through, but the super-quick summary is that if you want to make progress on your own, there are a few things that seem to be necessary for self-learners:

1. Set explicit, specific goals.
2. Evaluate yourself against those goals regularly.
3. "Scaffold" your practice -- in other words, set up systems and tools to do some of the work that a teacher might do. For example, you can set time aside to write out a practice plan every week. This way, when it's actually practice time, you can use all of your attention for practicing effectively.

[salim]

Some very good advice in this thread, especially the stuff about having sort of a "portfolio" of pieces at different levels -- often I am working on one to push my technical boundaries, one slightly easier to really refine your playing and work on interpretation, and one fun easy piece to make me feel good about myself

I'll also second the point that you should have a good sense of what exactly you want out of your practice. It's too easy to just sit down at the piano and play every day without ever feeling like you're making progress, just because you haven't answered for yourself the question: progress towards what?

I wrote an essay about "building effective practice habits" based on some of the research and case studies of professional musicians I'd read. It's a lot to sort through, but the super-quick summary is that if you want to make progress on your own, there are a few things that seem to be necessary for self-learners:

1. Set explicit, specific goals.
2. Evaluate yourself against those goals regularly.
3. "Scaffold" your practice -- in other words, set up systems and tools to do some of the work that a teacher might do. For example, you can set time aside to write out a practice plan every week. This way, when it's actually practice time, you can use all of your attention for practicing effectively.

Will be sure to check it out thanks.

[kawai_cs]

As mentioned by folks above, playing always pieces graded higher than one's skill does not guarantee that one is developing optimally. I asked my teacher recently if there was a good piece I could learn additionally to the stuff I am playing, that would help me play my other pieces better. And she suggested Mozart's Fantasy in d. It is only graded 7 but she said it would be very beneficial.

[coolpianoman]

I feel the objective should be to practise effectively and get the most out from the time you put in, not endlessly going through the whole piece making the same mistakes over and over again. I cannot recommend too highly the ebooks and blog of Graham Fitch who is an acknowledged master in the art of piano practise. Check him out on  https://www.practisingthepiano.com/  One tiny point - you only get the benefit from implementing the approaches not merely reading about them! 

[mrnhrtkmp210999]

This is a very general question and can in no possible way be answered in one reply, since you improve very much different musical aspects when you practice. I will briefly say this: I could, if you want, give you the general principles (which work for me) which might work for you. Let me know if you're interested.

BW,
Marijn

[pianoplunker]

Just want to find out different ways I could try out and see which way would be best. I'm currently going through Alfred's Basic Adult Piano Course which is a series of books.. Not difficult, but I'm using it to improve my sight reading and learn scales, arpeggios and other stuff. I know everybody have their own ways and it might not work with me, but what do you do that helps you improve the most?

Listening

[kayleez]

 I recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Piano-Pleasure-Improving-Discipline/dp/1616082305/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1442458750&sr=1-1&keywords=piano+practice

[symphonicdance]

Passion.  Research.  Experiment.  Practice.

p.s. I passed Licentitate and Fellowship diploma on Piano Performance of Trinity College London by self-learning.

[yadeehoo]

I practice very challenging pieces, that motivates me.

[bronnestam]

I feel the objective should be to practise effectively and get the most out from the time you put in, not endlessly going through the whole piece making the same mistakes over and over again. I cannot recommend too highly the ebooks and blog of Graham Fitch who is an acknowledged master in the art of piano practise. Check him out on  https://www.practisingthepiano.com/  One tiny point - you only get the benefit from implementing the approaches not merely reading about them!  

Yup, I second that. Fitch's material is excellent, and I really like that he addresses pianists on virtually every level of skill (except, perhaps, pure beginners who are still learning to find the keys on the piano and read music).

I have been to three different "piano schools" since June this year, and last year I was also to a piano summer school. Two of them were one week each at boarding schools and the last one was a traditional master class (where I had my lessons without an audience, which I am grateful for, because the other students were diploma students and I am not at all on that level). So I have had 2-3 lessons á one hour each with four different teachers during the last months. I am still harvesting what I learned there. With this I want to say that even one or two isolated lessons with a real good teacher is very, very beneficial for your development. On these occasions you don't get "assignments" for the next time, of course. Instead you may discuss some isolated technical issues you have and perhaps get a few exercises that you can work with at home.

So I highly recommend that you try to get such lessons for a renowned teacher if you ever come close to anyone. (Graham Fitch, for example, sometimes gives weekend classes.) Sometimes they are called workshops and then there are more than one participant. There are master classes which are very demanding and merely for top students who are polishing some fancy exam, but there are also master classes, workshops and lessons for intermediate students/amateurs who are just looking for ways to improve. They can be very supporting and you will learn awfully lot even by watching other students.
So, a good teacher can in this way, during just one single hour, give you a lot of input which will serve you for a long time. This is a very good way to use even if you cannot or don't want to find a regular teacher who you see on a frequent basis.

[CC]

I wrote a book for pianists like you; you can download the entire thing free at link below; click on 3rd edition.  Good luck, and enjoy -- piano should be all fun, rewarding, fast, and no pain, no exercises!!!!!!!!!!!!