Teacher and forcing a wrong interpertation?

[immortalbeloved]

Hi everyone,

I am not sure if I even have the right to say this, but I suspect that this is a safe environment for it. I am learning how to play Clementi's Op 36. no 1 and my tempo is correct and everything else. My teacher however really wants to me to play with noticeable contrasts in dynamics. I have listening to many recordings and see no other musician doing this--their main focus seems to be on speed and tempo.

Is my teacher trying to get me just to learn how to do this now so that when I have to eventually plays pieces with great dynamic contrasts I will be able to? Or, is this just an incorrect interpretation--if there is such  thing?

I really have no problem doing this, but I wondering if this is a lesson in general music ability or a question of musical interpretation on my teachers part.

[landru]

This is totally the right place for this question. I've also listened to recordings of Clementi's sonatinas and I've noticed that people tend to try to play these as fast as physically possible - and not paying much attention to dynamics, as if Clementi only cared about speed. BUT, there are dynamics in the score and Clementi definitely is contrasting forte and piano in a very firm way. So I believe your teacher is correct.

Also, musical dynamics are very good thing for a student to do well. I remember when I was doing these sonatinas, my dynamics were all variations on mf! Since these are student pieces that prepare you very well for Mozart/Beethoven, try to get some good dynamics going!

As a historical note, early keyboards had the ability to only do piano and forte. Early Mozart pieces are full of dynamics that are only p or f and my teacher makes sure that I follow them since it is part of the music that was intended.

[louispodesta]

In my opinion, one most know the following:

1)  One day, Vladimir Horowitz got the bright idea in the middle of an interview to state that Muzio Clementi was a far superior composer to Mozart.  From then on, everybody starting learning music that had, prior that time, rarely ever been assigned to a student by the average piano teacher.

This, coming from a man (Clementi), who exclusively spent his last years as a very successful piano salesman.

2)  The pianofortes of his day were solid wood sound board pianos, which could/can in no way produce the volume, tone, or nuance of a modern grand.  In terms of velocity, the pianofortes played/play like lightening.

Therefore, in terms of interpretations, in my opinion, it is at most an improvisational transcription to play these pieces.   What about Mozart?:  more to come on that subject later.

[outin]

I am not sure if I even have the right to say this, but I suspect that this is a safe environment for it. I am learning how to play Clementi's Op 36. no 1 and my tempo is correct and everything else. My teacher however really wants to me to play with noticeable contrasts in dynamics. I have listening to many recordings and see no other musician doing this--their main focus seems to be on speed and tempo.

Since this is a piece played mainly by students, you tend to hear a lot of rather poor recordings that do indeed focus only on speed and tempo and reduce the piece to a finger exercise. But the composer did include some dynamics and so should you. Listen to your teacher. She might want you to exaggerate the dynamics a little so that you learn, while a more experienced player would be more subtle. But without dynamics this is becomes a most boring piece. And since pianos sounded very different in Clementi's time, I think it's fine to add a bit to his dynamics to avoid the piece sounding too flat.

Always be critical when referring to YT when learning your pieces.

[keypeg]

When your teacher asks you to do something, it may be for particular reasons that have to do with your development.  Taking Youtube performances as a measure of what is "correct" is a mistake.

[louispodesta]

When your teacher asks you to do something, it may be for particular reasons that have to do with your development.  Taking Youtube performances as a measure of what is "correct" is a mistake.

Thank you for your completely accurate assessment.  However, as referenced in a long ago post I made in a "Teaching Forum," Youtube is a major factor in terms of modern student matriculation.

I do it, you do it, and you, nor anyone else can stop them (students) from comparing their playing of a particular piece from someone else's."

In my opinion, thoughtful guidance is the key.

[dcstudio]

I would venture to  guess that your teacher is trying to teach you the skill of dynamic contrast so that you can determine on your own just how loud you want the FF  and how soft pp..   

actually some are of the school of thought that if you exaggerate these dynamics during practice it gives you more control of your performance.   sort of like baseball players swinging two bats before they step up to the plate

 

[keypeg]

Thank you for your completely accurate assessment.  However, as referenced in a long ago post I made in a "Teaching Forum," Youtube is a major factor in terms of modern student matriculation.

I do it, you do it, and you, nor anyone else can stop them (students) from comparing their playing of a particular piece from someone else's."

In my opinion, thoughtful guidance is the key.

Guidance is indeed the key.  Knowing how to work with guidance is another element that I believe is important.  That is why I gave the feedback that I did.  If you begin as an adult, or never worked with a good teacher, then you don't know how to assess things, or what to pay attention to.  Knowing how to be guided is a skill in and of itself.

Re: "You do it...."
Yes, in fact, with my teacher's guidance I do look at Youtube - the question again is *how*.  For example, we will analyze a piece - I'm encouraged to devise a first interpretation - we also examine how others (good pianists) have played it, and then try to see what interpretation and what ideas may be behind that playing.  It is not a blind attempt at copying what is out there, and what may seem impressive to the untrained or semi-trained ear.  That is a thing that you are talking about, I think, and it is too prevalent.

One can even look at Youtube performances and see weaknesses - again with guidance.  Youtube is a tool, and any tool can be used poorly or well.

[dcstudio]

@keypeg...  I admire your spirit...       

  I have a brick wall in my house that I seem to have better luck explaining things too.'

 

[louispodesta]

Guidance is indeed the key.  Knowing how to work with guidance is another element that I believe is important.  That is why I gave the feedback that I did.  If you begin as an adult, or never worked with a good teacher, then you don't know how to assess things, or what to pay attention to.  Knowing how to be guided is a skill in and of itself.

Re: "You do it...."
Yes, in fact, with my teacher's guidance I do look at Youtube - the question again is *how*.  For example, we will analyze a piece - I'm encouraged to devise a first interpretation - we also examine how others (good pianists) have played it, and then try to see what interpretation and what ideas may be behind that playing.  It is not a blind attempt at copying what is out there, and what may seem impressive to the untrained or semi-trained ear.  That is a thing that you are talking about, I think, and it is too prevalent.

One can even look at Youtube performances and see weaknesses - again with guidance.  Youtube is a tool, and any tool can be used poorly or well.

Very well said, however, recently, I was asked in a private message to advise and assess and adult student, who had completely schooled themselves on a piece through a youtube video, and I was astounded at the accuracy of their level of associated learning.

Learning how to play the piano is not simple science, but it is also not rocket science, which has and continues to be shown to me by my coach Dr. Thomas Mark.  And, accordingly, the truth be known, 99% of all piano teachers are regurgitating in one way, manner, or form what they were taught to them by their own piano teachers.

Therefore, Youtube, or prior recordings, are an invaluable teaching aid.

Oh, and I forgot about a guy named Lang Lang who has literally copied every rendition of every piece he has ever played or learned.  Uh, oh!

[keypeg]

Very well said, however, recently, I was asked in a private message to advise and assess and adult student, who had completely schooled themselves on a piece through a youtube video, and I was astounded at the accuracy of their level of associated learning.

Then that person has approached things in a good way.  That's what we want.

[louispodesta]

Then that person has approached things in a good way.  That's what we want.

Thank you.

My take on this, in regards Youtube, is that these (what are pre-millennials called?) adolescents are going to actively/daily peruse these videos like they are genuine piano pedagogy because they are on the internet.  And, I am talking about famous concert pianists, not some blogger.

This, in my opinion, is something that Pianostreet needs to explore.