Bach Keyboard music from Easiest to Hardest?

[torandrekongelf]

I have this huge goal to play all of (or most of) Bachs Keyboard music during the next 10 years (or how much time it takes).

I am planning on playing

Inventions and Sinfonias
Notebook Anna Magdalena Bach
Das Wohltemperierte Klavier Book 1 and 2
French Suites
English Suites
Partias
Goldberg Variatons
The Art of the Fugue

I will play Goldberg and Art of Fugue last. Because they are very demanding.

I allready started on the Inventions and will play Anna Magdalena Bach on the side.

But I am not quite sure what its easiest to go Das Wohltemperierte Klavier before the suites or not? The fugues in this work can be quite demanding at least the ones with 4 voices or more.

Please help.

[josh93248]

That's a very, very admirable goal, in fact, it's one I pretty much share!

I think you have the right idea on the order.

As for your question I would recommend going with the Well-tempered Klavier before the suites. Partlu because you can break into very small manageable chunks and partly because after the inventions and sinfonias it's the next logical step. You'll also find it's not necessarily the number of voices that makes the fugues difficult but it's certainly an indicator.

I would suggest these two blocks of works as being your first two "sets" from the WTC

1st set:

Book 1:

C minor
D Major
D minor
Bb Major

Book 2:

Eb Major
G Major

Set 2:

Book 1:

C Major
E Major
E Minor
G# Minor
B Major

Book 2:

F Minor
B Minor

That's more or less a good plan and you can alter it to suit or if you want to add or subtract some other pieces from the WTC.

After those two sets you could probably then tackle just about anything in either book. Good Luck with it!

[alpacinator1]

Notebook for Anna Magdalena Bach
Inventions
Sinfonias
Suites
WTC
Partitas
Art of Fugue
Goldberg Variations

[chopinlover01]

You're forgetting the Toccatas...

[mjames]

ugh why do some of you people insist on starting these silly useless "rate this piece" threads. youd be surprised at how much useful information youd get from simply studying the scores yourself.

how about you just start workinh on Bach immediately rather than wasting your time? Pick some Bach little preludes/inventions and see how well you do. Make up your own practice, and studying schedules..etc..

Talk to your teacher about Bach. Spend time on the keyboard with Bach. The forum's useful for a lot of things...but making shallow "ratings" is not one of them. I promise you, you will gain virtually nothing from it.

[glennross]

I agree, to some extent, with mjames a lot. It's very useful instead of ranking all of Bach's keyboard music, to actually dive right into the music, perhaps in a particular kind of order.

I too, was dragged into the traditional order of difficulty of Bach's keyboard music by my teacher. However, another problem I encountered in this way, was that I never got to play the pieces I really liked, and my teacher would always say: "Well, that doesn't matter, soon you will be playing the pieces you like.", and I never understood this approach to picking which music to play. Now, we're 10 years further, and indeed I can play most of his keyboard music but I never got to pick music to play, which I really liked.

Never the less, this is the order my teacher dragged me into.

Rough guide:

• Notebook for Anna Magdalena Bach
• Little Preludes and Fugues
• Two-Part Inventions
• Three-Part Sinfonias
• French Suites
• Partitas
• English Suites
• The Well-Tempered Clavier
• Toccatas
• Goldberg Variations
• The Art of Fugue

The area of the Partitas, English Suites and WTC, however, is a tricky one, since a lot of the prelude and fugues from the WTC are much easier then the Partitas and English Suites. But if you're planning on learning the WTC in one big learning process, I think this rating is right.

As for the individual pieces: I think you should play some, but not too much, from the Notebook for AMB, to give you a firm grasp on Bach's style. However, do not get stuck too much here (my opinion).

The Little Preludes contain some real gems and I suggest you play some more of them. As for the Fugues. I suggest you play basically all of them, they really prepare you for the more advanced polyphonic music.

Two-Part Inventions:

I suggest that, when the time comes, you start with Inventions Nos. 1, 4, 6 and 8. After that go on to 2, 3, 5, 9, 10, 14. Then comes the really advanced ones, which are (imo) 7, 11, 12, 13, 15.

Three-Part Sinfonias:

Begin with No. 1, 4, 9, 11 and 13 Then comes the more advanced ones, I think like this 2, 3, 5, 6, 8. And the most difficult ones: 7, 10, 12, 14 and 15.

French Suites:

• Suite No. 2 in C minor, BWV 813: Menuet, Air, Sarabande, Allemande, Gigue, Courante
• Suite No. 6 in E major, BWV 817: Menuet, Polonaise, Gavotte, Allemande, Sarabande, Bourree, Gigue, Courante
• Suite No. 3 in B minor, BWV 814: Menuet-Trio, Sarabande, Allemande, Anglaise, Courante, Gigue
• Suite No. 4 in E-flat major, BWV 815: Menuett, Sarabande, Gavotte, Air, Courante, Allemande, Gigue
• Suite No. 1 in D minor, BWV 812: Menuet II, Menuet I, Sarabande, Allemande, Courante, Gigue
• Suite No. 5 in G major, BWV 816: Gavotte, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Bourree, Loure, Gigue

Partitas:

• Partita No. 1 in B-flat major, BWV 825: Menuet II, Menuet I, Sarabande, Allemande, Praeludium, Courante, Gigue
• Partita No. 3 in A minor, BWV 827: Scherzo, Burlesca, Allemande, Sarabande, Courante, Fantasia, Gigue
• Partita No. 5 in G major, BWV 829: Tempo di Minuetto, Passepied, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Prealudium, Gigue
• Partita No. 2 in C minor, BWV 826: Rondeaux, Sarabande, Allemande, Courante, Sinfonia, Capriccio
• Partita No. 4 in D major, BWV 828: Aria, Menuet, Allemande, Sarabande, Courante, Overture, Gigue
• Partita No. 6 in E minor, BWV 830: Air, Tempo di Gavotta, Allemande, Courante, Sarabande, Toccata, Gigue

English Suites

• English Suite No. 4 in F major, BWV 809: Menuet I, Menuet II, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Prelude, Gigue
• English Suite No. 3 in G minor, BWV 808: Gavotte II, Gavotte I, Allemande, Sarabande, Courante, Prelude, Gigue
• English Suite No. 2 in A minor, BWV 807: Bourree I, Bourree II, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Prelude, Gigue
• English Suite No. 1 in A major, BWV 806: Bourree II, Bourree I, Courante I, Double II, Courante II, Double I, Prelude, Allemande, Gigue
• English Suite No. 5 in E minor, BWV 810: Passepied I, Passepied II, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Prelude, Gigue
• English Suite No. 6 in D minor, BWV 811: Double, Courante, Gavotte II, Gavotte I, Sarabande, Allemande, Prelude, Gigue

The Well-Tempered Clavier

Begin with Preludes Nos. 1, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 22, 23 and Fugues 2, 5, 6, 10, 11, 14, 21, 22, 23. For the rest don't look to much at difficulty pick the preludes and fugues you like.

Book II: begin with Preludes Nos. 1, 2, 6, 9, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 24 and Fugues 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12, 15, 20, 21. For the rest, see above.

The Toccatas

• Toccata in E minor, BWV 914
• Toccata in G major, BWV 916
• Toccata in D minor, BWV 913
• Toccata in D major, BWV 912
• Toccata in F-sharp minor, BWV 910
• Toccata in C minor, BWV 911

As for the Goldberg Variations: most variations are pretty difficult except for (imo) 4, 7, 13, 15, 18, 19, 21, 22, 25, 27 and 30 (quodlibet).

And the Art of Fugue: All very difficult, you need a very thorough understanding of contrapuntal music for this.

Anyway, remember to always pick the ones you like. Nice plan and good luck.

BW,
Glenn
[/list]

[briansaddleback]

Just started learning Bach Prelude BMW 926 ..(on the mandate from my teacher)..it is cool.

[kevonthegreatpianist]

Here we go:

(from start to end)

Anna Magelnda Notebook
Short Preludes
Two-Part Inventions
French Suites
Three-Part Inventions
Sifonias
English Suites
Well-Tempered Claiver Book 1
Well-Tempered Claiver Book 2
Goldberg Variations
Toccatas  
Art of Fugues

[kevonthegreatpianist]

I agree, to some extent, with mjames a lot. It's very useful instead of ranking all of Bach's keyboard music, to actually dive right into the music, perhaps in a particular kind of order.

I too, was dragged into the traditional order of difficulty of Bach's keyboard music by my teacher. However, another problem I encountered in this way, was that I never got to play the pieces I really liked, and my teacher would always say: "Well, that doesn't matter, soon you will be playing the pieces you like.", and I never understood this approach to picking which music to play. Now, we're 10 years further, and indeed I can play most of his keyboard music but I never got to pick music to play, which I really liked.

Never the less, this is the order my teacher dragged me into.

Rough guide:

• Notebook for Anna Magdalena Bach
• Little Preludes and Fugues
• Two-Part Inventions
• Three-Part Sinfonias
• French Suites
• Partitas
• English Suites
• The Well-Tempered Clavier
• Toccatas
• Goldberg Variations
• The Art of Fugue

The area of the Partitas, English Suites and WTC, however, is a tricky one, since a lot of the prelude and fugues from the WTC are much easier then the Partitas and English Suites. But if you're planning on learning the WTC in one big learning process, I think this rating is right.

As for the individual pieces: I think you should play some, but not too much, from the Notebook for AMB, to give you a firm grasp on Bach's style. However, do not get stuck too much here (my opinion).

The Little Preludes contain some real gems and I suggest you play some more of them. As for the Fugues. I suggest you play basically all of them, they really prepare you for the more advanced polyphonic music.

Two-Part Inventions:

I suggest that, when the time comes, you start with Inventions Nos. 1, 4, 6 and 8. After that go on to 2, 3, 5, 9, 10, 14. Then comes the really advanced ones, which are (imo) 7, 11, 12, 13, 15.

Three-Part Sinfonias:

Begin with No. 1, 4, 9, 11 and 13 Then comes the more advanced ones, I think like this 2, 3, 5, 6, 8. And the most difficult ones: 7, 10, 12, 14 and 15.

French Suites:

• Suite No. 2 in C minor, BWV 813: Menuet, Air, Sarabande, Allemande, Gigue, Courante
• Suite No. 6 in E major, BWV 817: Menuet, Polonaise, Gavotte, Allemande, Sarabande, Bourree, Gigue, Courante
• Suite No. 3 in B minor, BWV 814: Menuet-Trio, Sarabande, Allemande, Anglaise, Courante, Gigue
• Suite No. 4 in E-flat major, BWV 815: Menuett, Sarabande, Gavotte, Air, Courante, Allemande, Gigue
• Suite No. 1 in D minor, BWV 812: Menuet II, Menuet I, Sarabande, Allemande, Courante, Gigue
• Suite No. 5 in G major, BWV 816: Gavotte, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Bourree, Loure, Gigue

Partitas:

• Partita No. 1 in B-flat major, BWV 825: Menuet II, Menuet I, Sarabande, Allemande, Praeludium, Courante, Gigue
• Partita No. 3 in A minor, BWV 827: Scherzo, Burlesca, Allemande, Sarabande, Courante, Fantasia, Gigue
• Partita No. 5 in G major, BWV 829: Tempo di Minuetto, Passepied, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Prealudium, Gigue
• Partita No. 2 in C minor, BWV 826: Rondeaux, Sarabande, Allemande, Courante, Sinfonia, Capriccio
• Partita No. 4 in D major, BWV 828: Aria, Menuet, Allemande, Sarabande, Courante, Overture, Gigue
• Partita No. 6 in E minor, BWV 830: Air, Tempo di Gavotta, Allemande, Courante, Sarabande, Toccata, Gigue

English Suites

• English Suite No. 4 in F major, BWV 809: Menuet I, Menuet II, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Prelude, Gigue
• English Suite No. 3 in G minor, BWV 808: Gavotte II, Gavotte I, Allemande, Sarabande, Courante, Prelude, Gigue
• English Suite No. 2 in A minor, BWV 807: Bourree I, Bourree II, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Prelude, Gigue
• English Suite No. 1 in A major, BWV 806: Bourree II, Bourree I, Courante I, Double II, Courante II, Double I, Prelude, Allemande, Gigue
• English Suite No. 5 in E minor, BWV 810: Passepied I, Passepied II, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Prelude, Gigue
• English Suite No. 6 in D minor, BWV 811: Double, Courante, Gavotte II, Gavotte I, Sarabande, Allemande, Prelude, Gigue

The Well-Tempered Clavier

Begin with Preludes Nos. 1, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 22, 23 and Fugues 2, 5, 6, 10, 11, 14, 21, 22, 23. For the rest don't look to much at difficulty pick the preludes and fugues you like.

Book II: begin with Preludes Nos. 1, 2, 6, 9, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 24 and Fugues 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12, 15, 20, 21. For the rest, see above.

The Toccatas

• Toccata in E minor, BWV 914
• Toccata in G major, BWV 916
• Toccata in D minor, BWV 913
• Toccata in D major, BWV 912
• Toccata in F-sharp minor, BWV 910
• Toccata in C minor, BWV 911

As for the Goldberg Variations: most variations are pretty difficult except for (imo) 4, 7, 13, 15, 18, 19, 21, 22, 25, 27 and 30 (quodlibet).

And the Art of Fugue: All very difficult, you need a very thorough understanding of contrapuntal music for this.

Anyway, remember to always pick the ones you like. Nice plan and good luck.

BW,
Glenn
[/list]

*looks at your rep

TEACH ME

[glennross]

*looks at your rep

TEACH ME

Haha, I understand that feeling.

However, it doesn't work that way. If you'd want me to, I could work you trough some of them so you can later on do it yourself and increase your repertoire in the sense of Bach.

Let me know.

BW,
Glenn[/list]

[kevonthegreatpianist]

Haha, I understand that feeling.

However, it doesn't work that way. If you'd want me to, I could work you trough some of them so you can later on do it yourself and increase your repertoire in the sense of Bach.

Let me know.

BW,
Glenn[/list]

nah it was a joke

however, it is kinda cool that you've mastered Op.106 and the sonata in bm by liszt. i mean, I'm still on Chopin's Nocturne and beethoven's easier sonatas! my etude, Chopin 10/4, i can only plY t hLF-SPEED!

[torandrekongelf]

ugh why do some of you people insist on starting these silly useless "rate this piece" threads. youd be surprised at how much useful information youd get from simply studying the scores yourself.

how about you just start workinh on Bach immediately rather than wasting your time? Pick some Bach little preludes/inventions and see how well you do. Make up your own practice, and studying schedules..etc..

Talk to your teacher about Bach. Spend time on the keyboard with Bach. The forum's useful for a lot of things...but making shallow "ratings" is not one of them. I promise you, you will gain virtually nothing from it.

Thanks for your reply. But you see the reason I ask is that I if I start with the easier pieces I can progress and improve my technique at the same time. And I do want as much extra as possible for articulation and interpretation as possible. So... if I plan to play all of it, it seems like a good idea to start with the easiest ones.

I have done errors before by starting to learn a piece which seemed ok, but finding out later I had difficulties with it, making me regret my choice of piece. So if I can avoid this, it seems like a good use of time.

I have started on Anna Magdalena Notebook, so doesnt seem like I am wasting my time.

[torandrekongelf]

I agree, to some extent, with mjames a lot. It's very useful instead of ranking all of Bach's keyboard music, to actually dive right into the music, perhaps in a particular kind of order.

I too, was dragged into the traditional order of difficulty of Bach's keyboard music by my teacher. However, another problem I encountered in this way, was that I never got to play the pieces I really liked, and my teacher would always say: "Well, that doesn't matter, soon you will be playing the pieces you like.", and I never understood this approach to picking which music to play. Now, we're 10 years further, and indeed I can play most of his keyboard music but I never got to pick music to play, which I really liked.

Never the less, this is the order my teacher dragged me into.

Rough guide:

• Notebook for Anna Magdalena Bach
• Little Preludes and Fugues
• Two-Part Inventions
• Three-Part Sinfonias
• French Suites
• Partitas
• English Suites
• The Well-Tempered Clavier
• Toccatas
• Goldberg Variations
• The Art of Fugue

The area of the Partitas, English Suites and WTC, however, is a tricky one, since a lot of the prelude and fugues from the WTC are much easier then the Partitas and English Suites. But if you're planning on learning the WTC in one big learning process, I think this rating is right.

As for the individual pieces: I think you should play some, but not too much, from the Notebook for AMB, to give you a firm grasp on Bach's style. However, do not get stuck too much here (my opinion).

The Little Preludes contain some real gems and I suggest you play some more of them. As for the Fugues. I suggest you play basically all of them, they really prepare you for the more advanced polyphonic music.

Two-Part Inventions:

I suggest that, when the time comes, you start with Inventions Nos. 1, 4, 6 and 8. After that go on to 2, 3, 5, 9, 10, 14. Then comes the really advanced ones, which are (imo) 7, 11, 12, 13, 15.

Three-Part Sinfonias:

Begin with No. 1, 4, 9, 11 and 13 Then comes the more advanced ones, I think like this 2, 3, 5, 6, 8. And the most difficult ones: 7, 10, 12, 14 and 15.

French Suites:

• Suite No. 2 in C minor, BWV 813: Menuet, Air, Sarabande, Allemande, Gigue, Courante
• Suite No. 6 in E major, BWV 817: Menuet, Polonaise, Gavotte, Allemande, Sarabande, Bourree, Gigue, Courante
• Suite No. 3 in B minor, BWV 814: Menuet-Trio, Sarabande, Allemande, Anglaise, Courante, Gigue
• Suite No. 4 in E-flat major, BWV 815: Menuett, Sarabande, Gavotte, Air, Courante, Allemande, Gigue
• Suite No. 1 in D minor, BWV 812: Menuet II, Menuet I, Sarabande, Allemande, Courante, Gigue
• Suite No. 5 in G major, BWV 816: Gavotte, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Bourree, Loure, Gigue

Partitas:

• Partita No. 1 in B-flat major, BWV 825: Menuet II, Menuet I, Sarabande, Allemande, Praeludium, Courante, Gigue
• Partita No. 3 in A minor, BWV 827: Scherzo, Burlesca, Allemande, Sarabande, Courante, Fantasia, Gigue
• Partita No. 5 in G major, BWV 829: Tempo di Minuetto, Passepied, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Prealudium, Gigue
• Partita No. 2 in C minor, BWV 826: Rondeaux, Sarabande, Allemande, Courante, Sinfonia, Capriccio
• Partita No. 4 in D major, BWV 828: Aria, Menuet, Allemande, Sarabande, Courante, Overture, Gigue
• Partita No. 6 in E minor, BWV 830: Air, Tempo di Gavotta, Allemande, Courante, Sarabande, Toccata, Gigue

English Suites

• English Suite No. 4 in F major, BWV 809: Menuet I, Menuet II, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Prelude, Gigue
• English Suite No. 3 in G minor, BWV 808: Gavotte II, Gavotte I, Allemande, Sarabande, Courante, Prelude, Gigue
• English Suite No. 2 in A minor, BWV 807: Bourree I, Bourree II, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Prelude, Gigue
• English Suite No. 1 in A major, BWV 806: Bourree II, Bourree I, Courante I, Double II, Courante II, Double I, Prelude, Allemande, Gigue
• English Suite No. 5 in E minor, BWV 810: Passepied I, Passepied II, Sarabande, Courante, Allemande, Prelude, Gigue
• English Suite No. 6 in D minor, BWV 811: Double, Courante, Gavotte II, Gavotte I, Sarabande, Allemande, Prelude, Gigue

The Well-Tempered Clavier

Begin with Preludes Nos. 1, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 22, 23 and Fugues 2, 5, 6, 10, 11, 14, 21, 22, 23. For the rest don't look to much at difficulty pick the preludes and fugues you like.

Book II: begin with Preludes Nos. 1, 2, 6, 9, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, 24 and Fugues 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12, 15, 20, 21. For the rest, see above.

The Toccatas

• Toccata in E minor, BWV 914
• Toccata in G major, BWV 916
• Toccata in D minor, BWV 913
• Toccata in D major, BWV 912
• Toccata in F-sharp minor, BWV 910
• Toccata in C minor, BWV 911

As for the Goldberg Variations: most variations are pretty difficult except for (imo) 4, 7, 13, 15, 18, 19, 21, 22, 25, 27 and 30 (quodlibet).

And the Art of Fugue: All very difficult, you need a very thorough understanding of contrapuntal music for this.

Anyway, remember to always pick the ones you like. Nice plan and good luck.

BW,
Glenn
[/list]

Thanks alot for your reply. Seems you put time into it and I appriciate that.

The thing is I have this huge OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) than I must play things in order of difficulty, and then organized. So with WTC Book 1 for example, I start with with the first prelude and fugue then go through the book page by page. And the suites I have to start with the first movement and go to the second etc.

I know this messes up the difficulty curve quite alot since the c-major fugue in WTC 1 is harder than the c-minor one in the same book.

However: I think I have it narrowed down:

• 1725 Notebook Anna Magdalena Bach (Without the 2 Partitas and the French Suites)
• 1722 Notebook Wilhelm Friedemann Bach (This contains Little Preludes and Fugues + Inventions and Sinfonias, Some of preludes of WTC Book 1 + random pieces at same level of difficulty)
• 1722 Notebook Anna Magdalena Bach (5 French Suites + some random pieces)
• English Suites
• Partitas
• Das Wohltemperierte Klavier Book 1 and 2
• Italian Concerto
• Goldberg Variations
• Toccatas
• Art of Fugue
• Everything else that is not played by Bach

What are you people thoughts on this order?

[glennross]

Thanks alot for your reply. Seems you put time into it and I appriciate that.

The thing is I have this huge OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) than I must play things in order of difficulty, and then organized. So with WTC Book 1 for example, I start with with the first prelude and fugue then go through the book page by page. And the suites I have to start with the first movement and go to the second etc.

I know this messes up the difficulty curve quite alot since the c-major fugue in WTC 1 is harder than the c-minor one in the same book.

However: I think I have it narrowed down:


• 1725 Notebook Anna Magdalena Bach (Without the 2 Partitas and the French Suites)
• 1722 Notebook Wilhelm Friedemann Bach (This contains Little Preludes and Fugues + Inventions and Sinfonias, Some of preludes of WTC Book 1 + random pieces at same level of difficulty)
• 1722 Notebook Anna Magdalena Bach (5 French Suites + some random pieces)
• English Suites
• Partitas
• Das Wohltemperierte Klavier Book 1 and 2
• Italian Concerto
• Goldberg Variations
• Toccatas
• Art of Fugue
• Everything else that is not played by Bach

What are you people thoughts on this order?

I did put some time in it. But hey, no big deal.

Yeah, that list pretty much is it i think. However I think technically, the English Suites are much more exhausting then the partitas. However, I don't think you should be worrying about those right now. Just begin with the easier ones and gradually when you're at the point of French Suites, find out which you think is harder by sight-reading the partitas and english suites.

Anyway, never forget to also play other music. Don't only focus on one composer. It most likely will narrow down your field of view very much.

BW,
Glenn[/list]

[outin]

What are you people thoughts on this order?

I'm afraid my only thought is you need to do something about that ocd...

[torandrekongelf]

I'm afraid my only thought is you need to do something about that ocd...

Aye, you are right. I am trying my best.

[torandrekongelf]

I did put some time in it. But hey, no big deal.

Yeah, that list pretty much is it i think. However I think technically, the English Suites are much more exhausting then the partitas. However, I don't think you should be worrying about those right now. Just begin with the easier ones and gradually when you're at the point of French Suites, find out which you think is harder by sight-reading the partitas and english suites.

Anyway, never forget to also play other music. Don't only focus on one composer. It most likely will narrow down your field of view very much.

BW,
Glenn[/list]

Yes. I agree. Thanks alot.

On a completely different topic if I may. What structure do you use to learn music by heart or to study pieces in general?

Do you take 2 bars at a time and practice them to perfection, or 1 line of bars? Or entire pages?

[glennross]

Yes. I agree. Thanks alot.

On a completely different topic if I may. What structure do you use to learn music by heart or to study pieces in general?

Do you take 2 bars at a time and practice them to perfection, or 1 line of bars? Or entire pages?

Wow, that's a hard question to answer, that is, because of it's unspecificality (I don't even know if that's a word). What really would you like to know at this moment. Otherwise, you will be getting information which is to long to post in about four pages full pages.
[/list]

[torandrekongelf]

Wow, that's a hard question to answer, that is, because of it's unspecificality (I don't even know if that's a word). What really would you like to know at this moment. Otherwise, you will be getting information which is to long to post in about four pages full pages.
[/list]

Hmm I am not sure how to be more specific.

I think I would rather know how to get things memorized. I am studying Anna Magdalena Bach Notebook and the most challenging pieces except trying to articulate them as good as possible is to memorize them.

What I simply do is play through it 100 times untill its in my muscle memory. So I can play them blindfolded. But maybe actually knowing the exact notes by heart in the head would be better?

The problem with method 1 by muscle memory is that if I make 1 mistake and get thrown off I have no idea how to continue. And the second method is well... hard.

[outin]

What I simply do is play through it 100 times untill its in my muscle memory. So I can play them blindfolded. But maybe actually knowing the exact notes by heart in the head would be better?

Play through 100 times? IMO the time used for that could certainly be used for a more efficient method.

What I do to memorize is divide the  piece into suitable sections and study them in small doses (spaced over some time with suitable methods (the methods chosen depend on the music) until it's memorized. Then put these together to larger sections until the whole thing is there. I do not have the score in my head, but I generally aim to know what to play on the keyboard in my head also (not individual notes necessarily, but at least larger patterns), not just in my hands. The muscle memory likes to fail me...

[glennross]

Look, I will give you a general way of learning which, at least for me, works. However, keep in mind that might not be working for you and that every piece has it's own difficulties, so the details of the studying can be different every time.

Anyway, here you go:

What I do, is listen to the music. That's the first step. Listen to it and preferably also several interpretations. After you really know how to music sounds, that is, as far as your mind can handle it, you go on and listen to it some times again, but now with the score in front of you. Depending on the level you're at, and sometimes also not, you will most likely experience that in some passages, for instance, you see a left hand bass-patern with very wide intervals which you didn't hear without the score in front of you. So, listening with the score in front of you is a part of learning the music even better BEFORE going to the piano and actually playing it.

Now that you've totally learned how the music sounds (you can test this by humming it, either in your head or aloud), you're ready to move on to the next step.

The next step is actually the second step of the first stage of learning a piece. Remember, there are three stages (EXPLORATORY, STUDYING, MASTERING) of learning. So the next step of the exploratory level is finding out which passages are technically hard for you. This is done by sight-reading through the music. Just look for the moments at which you get really stuck and which therefore need special attention. If those moments are popping up so much that the piece is actually one big moment of stuckness, that doesn't mean the piece is TOO hard - since I don't believe there is something like pieces which are TOO hard at several stages - it simply means it is harder than another one and that it needs more attention. Anyway, look for the moments of stuckness and write down somewhere which bars/notes/passages it are. If that's done, move on to the next step.

The next step is the breaking down of the piece into manageable sections. So, let's say I have piece X which is 30 bars long. Bars 1-5/7-9/12-20/25-30, I can already play right from the music. That's great, forget about them for the moment. Bars 6/21-23 are playable, however, they will need some more attention. Bars 10-11 are simply impossible. Okay, so now you can play already 23 bars of this piece. That means there are 7 bars left which will need some attention. So look at those bars, if you think you can do 2 of the playable bars on one day, that's fine, however, this is really something only you can do. The way to find out which sections are good for you, is by playing one section with one hand 7 times. If you can play it from memory without finger-faults after those 7 times, that's one section. In this way, you're gonna have to find out which sections are manageable for you.

Have you done that, breaking down the piece in those sections? Great, you can move on by actually learning those sections. Let's say I have chosen a section with an octave passage of 8 eight-notes octaves in the left hand. That's what I'm gonna work on for today. I will work on it for 20-30 minutes on one day and I must have that passage perfected after that period of time. If I have it perfected, I will not play it anymore today. I will play it again tomorrow and see if I can still play it this perfect. If not, I'm gonna do the exact same thing as I did yesterday to perfect it again. Herefore, you must write down how you got your section perfected. You will see that by now, the section will not be perfected after 20-30 minutes, but after 10 minutes. Perfected? Leave it for today again. Move on this way, until the day comes that you come out of your bed and you can play the section from memory and flawless. Do this for every section. It is therefore also best to work on several sections of a same piece simultaniously. That way, the technical learning will be faster.

If all the (maybe 7 days ago) impossible sections are learned, you're going to put in between those bars you can already play. That doesn't need much explanation I guess. Just play bars 1-5 + your recently learned bar 6 a few times until they connect flawlessly. Do this for every gaps and then play the piece as a whole sometimes too.

After this, the mastering stage comes, that mostly involves soft passages which should be played loud and vice versa, that sort of thing. It also involves interpretational questions: How am I going to play this piece? How am I going to put some personality in it? Those kind of questions. After all this kind of things are done, just PLAY the piece as much as possible so it will be ingrained into your mind.

That's the shortest summarization I can give you.

However, learning Bach's music is a quite different progress which I will explain in a later post.

BW,
Glenn