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Topic: Why you so harshly?  (Read 1731 times)

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Why you so harshly?
on: August 16, 2015, 03:49:18 PM
OK, ignore the title. It was just to attract attention. ;D

I have a problem(actually, I have many ::)), and it is that I play Chopin Nocturnes WAY TOO HARSH. I'm talking about, for example, Chopin's Nocturne Op. 27 #2 or Schubert's Sonata Op. 120, I.

How can I make a tender sound without being WAY TOO SOFT????? I think when I play that soft for stuff like Nocturnes, it sounds puny. It is not the "atmospheric" type of quiet.

Does anyone recommend how to practice? Right now, I'm experimenting, but I'm sure there are some other methods, too.

The "teacher" I just quit from made me copy her hand position (she calls it "bel canto tone", while I call it "banging"). Also, she made me play along with her, even for pieces like the Ballade Op. 52 (but not the Coda ;D ). In the flowy section, she RUINED IT (metronomicaly, note for note, vertically, all the bad stuff). Before that section, she banged WAY TOO HARSHLY. Also, she has no musicality or instinct. Still, you could hear the arrogance in her playing. Lang Lang's touch is FREAKING AWESOME compared to hers ::)  I recently went to some lessons with more prominent people ::) and what they said was the exact opposite of my teacher (how to make my sound less uninteresting/ed). Unfortunately, I did not have a lesson with them for Chopin Nocturnes, so I forgot to ask them about this.

OK! End of rant. I have to become a better person now, but that just PISSES ME OFF!  I have to change the way I think. I'm sorry I think so negatively about some people I dislike, but it just PISSES ME OFF! >:( >:( >:( My heart is so dirty. I have to be better. Still PLEASE FORGIVE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, sorry ;D

Any tips? ::)

Offline anamnesis

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Re: Why you so harshly?
Reply #1 on: August 16, 2015, 05:11:37 PM
Post some kind of recording.  The issue could either be musical, physical, or both. 

Offline iansinclair

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Re: Why you so harshly?
Reply #2 on: August 16, 2015, 08:24:42 PM
It is worth remembering that Chopin was -- if anyone was -- a romantic.  Just as Bach was very mathematical, and Debussy a dreamer (no, I'm not even going to try to categorise Liszt...).

His pieces take great technical skill, true -- but one also has to feel the emotional side of them to do them justice, and that can be difficult to develop.  In my humble opinion (well, maybe not so humble...) while there are indeed tender sections in each of the Nocturnes (and other pieces) there are also highly dramatic and forceful (and no, you are right, not harsh) sections.

Think of what he might have been trying to say.  Think of what you can say through his music.  But don't intellectualise about it!
Ian

Offline roncesvalles

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Re: Why you so harshly?
Reply #3 on: August 16, 2015, 09:03:58 PM
Softness is about more than volume--it's also about how you phrase and vary your tone.  To me a nuanced MP, maybe with a touch of rubato in the melody, has a softer feel than a P that is played as if the piano is a harpsichord, without shading.  I like to think of melodies as waves of tension and release--or, if you like, moments of slight drama followed by their relaxation.   These come about either inherently in the intervals of the melody or by the relationship of the melody to the accompaniment.   This isn't always a case in Mozart, but if you look at the dynamic indications, where he indicates forte, it is often at a dissonance (sometimes a plain dissonance or sometimes a chord or interval dissonant to what preceded it)--and it is often followed by something diatonic or triadic that he indicates as piano--so what he's doing is increasing the tension and then letting it out.  

Maybe you should practice on something easy--something where you don't have to expend a lot of energy with the accompaniment, like the opening part of the raindrop prelude, where you can really play around with your touch, to really get a feel for the different ways you can get expression out of the same melody.  Think how you would do it if you would sing.   Chopin said something to the effect that there's an art to phrasing at the piano--that you're not making music if it's as if you're reciting a poem in a foreign language that you don't understand.  Understand the notes, the harmony, the inherent points of tension and release, where it should sound effortless and floating, or where it should even have a little strain (like how really emotional singers can get gravelly or have a lot of vibrato at the emotional peaks of a song).   Really play with different phrases, trying to put your individual stamp on it, but a stamp informed by both the melody and accompaniment.

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Why you so harshly?
Reply #4 on: August 16, 2015, 09:30:10 PM

I had a teacher who used to have me hold my hands high above the keyboard and then let them drop onto chords--and play them softly..   the trick was to not pull up right before you landed but to judge from above and make it all one motion---and then once the keys were down I had to relax my hand on the chord with just enough weight to keep the keys down--I was playing the military polonaise and it really helped it sound smooth yet loud.

it takes a little practice--or at least it did for me-- but it does make a difference.   those octave runs were so much easier after that.

 ;D

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Why you so harshly?
Reply #5 on: August 16, 2015, 10:20:35 PM
Thank you everyone for all the replies!!!

For the recording, I'm still waiting to hear what microphone I should buy (I sent a message to a PS member). I just can't trust internet reviews anymore! ??? I'll upload a recording as soon as possible.

Also, thanks for going along with my hideous, annoying, horrible, disgusting rant! I tried to modify it, but it was too late. >:( I know it's not all this "teacher"'s fault, but I just got SO PISSED OUT!! Sorry. Let me become a better person before I post again.

Offline esmusssein

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Re: Why you so harshly?
Reply #6 on: August 17, 2015, 08:21:03 PM
I may not be the best person to advise you, given that I gave up the piano many years ago and only recently went back to it. However, for what is worth, I used to play a lot of Chopin, whom I adored, even though I am more of a Beethoven and Rachmaninoff person. :) And yes, Chopin's sound is very very different. What personally helped me was realizing that we very much play with the head and emotions. Neurologically speaking, visualization, both while playing and also when thinking about a specific piece, is important, as is listening to other recordings (which can be tricky). Additionally, I would usually read absolutely ALL I could about a composer and of the specific thing I was working on until I could date a specific piece to the exact time of a composer's life. In other words, I would try to feel what he was feeling.
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