In search of a suitable concerto

[cameronbiles]

Hi all, thought I'd jump on the bandwagon of the recent concerto requests and through my hat into the ring so to speak. This could/would be a long term project so wouldn't mind doing something I'm really keen on. I tend to have a natural affinity to impressionistic composers ( the Ravel springs to mind, though might be too hard) and jazz (attempted rhapsody in blue couple of years back but due to poor technique it would take double the amount of time to learn). However, any suggestions would be nice but be warned I tend to have a dislike to playing Mozart so his concerto are preferably a no-no. My signature gives the pieces I've learn't now and generally touching up.

Thanks again
P.S I only ask on here solely because concerti are fickle things I'd rather not totally overshoot it! 

[visitor]

[visitor]

Albeniz is technically impressionistic too, he gets' overlooked a lot

[visitor]

to my knowledge score for this is only a s solo piano transcription (But it is a true transcription so it follows the piano plus orchestra extactly, so it's not easy but not impossible either, the piano writting is solid and 'doable').

[cameronbiles]

to my knowledge score for this is only a s solo piano transcription (But it is a true transcription so it follows the piano plus orchestra extactly, so it's not easy but not impossible either, the piano writting is solid and 'doable').

Ah vistor you're becoming a ever welcomed regular to my posts, you also surprise me with your hidden gems by obscure composers ( albeniz aside). That said you're second one is like rhapsody in blue in a blender with debussy. I may be looking for something more mainstream as I would like to perform with an orchestra some time

[visitor]

^anytime! 

hm, how about Szymanowski, this is cool, has a bit of an identity crisis, it cannot decide if it is a piano conceerto or a symphony

[pencilart3]

I think visitor should be awarded an extra star and have a sign below his/her name that says "most helpful member award 2015".

[cameronbiles]

I think visitor should be awarded an extra star and have a sign below his/her name that says "most helpful member award 2015".

Hahaha agreed! He seems to always contribute to the 'what can I play' posts!

[visitor]

Hahaha agreed! He seems to always contribute to the 'what can I play' posts!

what can we say?

*Sergei (no, the other one, not that one either, the other - other one), was forward thinking and there are some elements that hear in some early impessionist works, perhaps this?

pt.1 ^

this is lovely too, shorter too overall so you wouldn't be limited to a single movement//

[cameronbiles]

what can we say?

*Sergei (no, the other one, not that one either, the other - other one), was forward thinking and there are some elements that hear in some early impessionist works, perhaps this?

pt.1 ^

this is lovely too, shorter too overall so you wouldn't be limited to a single movement//

Oh wow... How have I never heard of him!? he's music much like the more known romantic Sergei but with like training wheels I'm guessing that his sheet music is going to be pretty expensive to buy, assuming he's not on ismlp. 

[visitor]

Oh wow... How have I never heard of him!? he's music much like the more known romantic Sergei but with like training wheels I'm guessing that his sheet music is going to be pretty expensive to buy, assuming he's not on ismlp.  

he's an unsung genius. should be on IMSLP or some of it is/should be.
he actually finished the cycle of virtuosic etudes started by Liszt, you should listen to his transcendental etudes (the last one dedicated to Liszt is particularly narly).  I got lucky and managed to find a new old stock set of the 4 books of the etudes. I'm in love with them. recordings for those are on yt and available easily for download on amazon, naxos, etc.

Like late Liszt,he was rooted in romantic tradition but the evolving language points to impressionism, somewhat, faint, but i hear it.



https://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Lyapunov,_Sergey

edit: shop around, like others, good quality scores can be pricey but there's bargains to be found. I snagged those etudes from an antique book dealer for less than 75 dollars which is cheap considering the rarity of material and it was 4 books.

[cameronbiles]

he's an unsung genius. should be on IMSLP or some of it is/should be.
he actually finished the cycle of virtuosic etudes started by Liszt, you should listen to his transcendental etudes (the last one dedicated to Liszt is particularly narly) .

Yeah I found some of them on there! I will do as well..I naturally shop around as well. Got anymore ( perhaps less obscure) or have I excausted you're knowledge for the day

[visitor]

Yeah I found some of them on there! I will do as well..I naturally shop around as well. Got anymore ( perhaps less obscure) or have I excausted you're knowledge for the day

'obscure' is a tricky term to use on me, since things i listen to lots of most people have never heard/heard of lol

Joseph Marx, you'll like his sound. He was very well known in his day but an unfortunate (and non musical)  combo of events led to his music falling out of favor for a while in most parts, but luckily there is a little bit of a rediscovery happening bit by bit. His music is publihsed (and prot by copyright/non public domain) so lots is avail to purchase. You might have to rent parts for the concerto but it might be sold, not too sure

ps his solo writing is good/top notch too, harmonically like a well behaved Scriabin with Debussy flair, but still very much his own style. i listen to his music album/solo works for piano all the time. makes for great background and active listening

[cameronbiles]

'obscure' is a tricky term to use on me, since things i listen to lots of most people have never heard/heard of

I will! Thank you again! Right I shall let you get on with your day now rather pestering you for suggesitons! I know have two composers to look into now!

[mrnhrtkmp210999]

Just a question.

Did ever played with an ensemble rather than with an entire orchestra. This is something you should probably start with, so you can get a feeling on how it is to play together.

Next to that, there is much more impressionistic music for small or larger ensembles or just piano and violin/cello.

BW,
Marijn

[cameronbiles]

Just a question.

Did ever played with an ensemble rather than with an entire orchestra. This is something you should probably start with, so you can get a feeling on how it is to play together.

Next to that, there is much more impressionistic music for small or larger ensembles or just piano and violin/cello.

BW,
Marijn

I have, been in piano duo and a pianist in a decent jazz band   I know there is, i thought I'd just mention it. I am open to all suggestions

[mrnhrtkmp210999]

Okay, but I probably don't have to

I have, been a pianist in a decent jazz band

Okay, but I probably don't have to tell you that jazz music is very different from classical music (depending on which period and composer). But to give you a really good advise I'll need more information about which pieces you're playing right now.

I myself live in the Netherlands and have recently played the Brahms D minor Concerto a week ago. It's a lovely concerto but also very long and difficult.

BW,
Marijn

[pianoman1349]

I know this seems rather obvious, but have you actually tried playing the Ravel G major that you thought of?

From personal experience playing and coaching this concerto, it actually is very approachable for someone who is working on the repertoire you are working on.  This concerto will also meet the desired jazz and impressionistic elements you are looking for.

Ensemble wise, this concerto is quite straight forward, except for a couple spots in the third movement.   Believe it or not, playing this with orchestra is actually easier than playing with second piano for some parts, as the reduction tends to isolate motives that are tricky to put together with the original solo part.

[cameronbiles]

Okay, but I probably don't have to tell you that jazz music is very different from classical music (depending on which period and composer). But to give you a really good advise I'll need more information about which pieces you're playing right now.
BW,
Marijn

Hahah well yes of course! However my piano duo was strictly classical The Debussy (reflections on the water) I had no real problems with technically and just really polishing it up. The Isolde's liederstrum  wasn't much of a hassle either it was just the cross rhythms near the climax that required isolating. Finally the chopin which I learnt before the previous two was the most troublesome at the climatic section towards the end however that is all done and at a performance standard. I have previously learnt the Rach g minor prelude and a jazz arrangement of Paganini variations by Fazil say which was very fun! Hope this can help you

I know this seems rather obvious, but have you actually tried playing the Ravel G major that you thought of?

...I have and there are spots that are a bit awkward and would require practise but on the whole I can plod my way through it at a very slow tempo! As much I love the work ( my favourite concerto!), I just felt I might be pushing my capabilities at the moment as I did the rhapsody in blue a couple of year back when I really wasn't ready

[mrnhrtkmp210999]

Okay, and what's your opinion about the great Herr Bach? Do you like his music. It is a good start to real bigger concerto's. The technically most difficult one is the BWV 1052 in D minor concerto. But I don't think it will present too much difficulties for you. Just a suggestion

BW,
Marijn

[cameronbiles]

Okay, and what's your opinion about the great Herr Bach? Do you like his music. It is a good start to real bigger concerto's. The technically most difficult one is the BWV 1052 in D minor concerto. But I don't think it will present too much difficulties for you. Just a suggestion

BW,
Marijn

I respect but on the whole dislike Bachs keyboard music with the exception of that and other concerti for keyboard, however if it was a toss up between the Ravel and the Bach, the Ravel would win every time xD. Then again if it's obviously out of my league then I won't even try it and opt for the Bach

[mrnhrtkmp210999]

I respect but on the whole dislike Bachs keyboard music with the exception of that and other concerti for keyboard, however if it was a toss up between the Ravel and the Bach, the Ravel would win every time xD. Then again if it's obviously out of my league then I won't even try it and opt for the Bach

Okay, but now it's not really clear to me wether you've ever played a piano concert before or not. Did you? Because if not, I'd go for the Bach first to gain some experience. A suggestion to work to the greater romantic concerti (which I on the other hand mostly don't like too much). My teacher worked me trough it look this:

I began with her when I was 5 years old in 2004. After 3 years she said I was ready for Bach's BWV 1052. Before that I played the Bach Sonatas for Piano and Viola da Gamba, the Sonatas for Violin and Piano, and most of the Beethoven Sonatas for Violin/Piano and Cello/Piano.

So the BWV 1052 at age 8. Then at age 10 the Beethoven 2nd Piano Concerto and later that year also the 1st Piano Concerto. After that, at age 12 the 3rd Piano Concerto and at 13 the 4th Piano Concerto. Later at age 14 the 5th Piano Concerto (Emperor). I never really played Mozart too much, only the Piano Concerto Nos. 18, 20, 21, 24 and 27. Then in 2013, at age 14 she assigned the Schumann Concerto and Grieg Concerto. A year later at 15 I played the first movement of Brahms D minor concerto and later that year also both Chopin's Piano Concerti. And now (2015!) 16 years I recently played the Brahms D minor completely and also his 2nd Piano Concerto.

Besides that, also a lot of solo piano music. Maybe you could follow this guide roughly too. Because at the point you can play the Brahms D minor, you can surely also play the Ravel G major. It certainly worked for me.

BW,
Marijn

[pianoman1349]

I have and there are spots that are a bit awkward and would require practise but on the whole I can plod my way through it at a very slow tempo! As much I love the work ( my favourite concerto!), I just felt I might be pushing my capabilities at the moment as I did the rhapsody in blue a couple of year back when I really wasn't ready

I agree that there are some tricky spots in this concerto, as there are in most pieces.  Most of these spots however, can be easily resolved with good fingering (and some clever redistributions).  I think the Wagner/Liszt that you are polishing is actually much more difficult than this concerto, and since you have already done work on Rhapsody in Blue, you should be more than capable of playing Ravel.

Think of the concerto as an extended version of Debussy Images 1 (set that Reflets belongs too).

[cameronbiles]

I agree that there are some tricky spots in this concerto, as there are in most pieces.  Most of these spots however, can be easily resolved with good fingering (and some clever redistributions).  I think the Wagner/Liszt that you are polishing is actually much more difficult than this concerto, and since you have already done work on Rhapsody in Blue, you should be more than capable of playing Ravel.

Think of the concerto as an extended version of Debussy Images 1 (set that Reflets belongs too).

That is encouraging to hear! I'm quite surprised about the Wagner/Liszt though because most of it isn't too bad, just fiddly in the places. Yes I'd agree fingering would help but unfortunately all the editions I've come across of the Ravel contain very little editorial fingering so that may be the only problem. Other than I think I shall begin to tackle the Ravel once I get the music (or ismlp). Some background info about it is that I studied it as a set work for my music A level in the UK ( and had to do a extended essay on the role of piano in the concerto for university entry stuff!) so know the work pretty well from a piano point of view and orchestral side. However, yes I would agree on the state of extended version of the images blended with a whole lot of other stuff!

[glennross]

Hi,

I'm new on the forum and just looking around if I can help some people out.

In two weeks I'm going to perform Beethovens 3rd Piano Concerto along with some of his sonatas (11 and 12). But before this I played the Ravel G major concerto too and the Grieg A minor concerto.

I strongly suggest to take a look at the Grieg concerto, it's really wonderful, and not too hard. It's never wrong to take a step back and play something a little bit easier you know.

BW,
Glenn

[cameronbiles]

Hi,

I'm new on the forum and just looking around if I can help some people out.

In two weeks I'm going to perform Beethovens 3rd Piano Concerto along with some of his sonatas (11 and 12). But before this I played the Ravel G major concerto too and the Grieg A minor concerto.

I strongly suggest to take a look at the Grieg concerto, it's really wonderful, and not too hard. It's never wrong to take a step back and play something a little bit easier you know.

Welcome to forum! I will tomorrow I've had a plod through the ravel and no real issues arose ( as in oh god I can't play this) and I will take a look at the grieg and see how I fair with that

[dcstudio]

a pianist in a jazz band?

awesome...you likely have far more performance experience than most of the people here.  I too play jazz...  yes it's different from classical.. but that doesn't mean you should think of it that way--I approach classical pieces no different from anything else--analyze the progression...sometimes I even make a lead sheet...

there is no reason to have any performance anxiety simply because this is titled "concerto"   

I would go for the Rach 2!!!!

[cameronbiles]

a pianist in a jazz band?

awesome...you likely have far more performance experience than most of the people here.  I too play jazz...  yes it's different from classical.. but that doesn't mean you should think of it that way--I approach classical pieces no different from anything else--analyze the progression...sometimes I even make a lead sheet...

there is no reason to have any performance anxiety simply because this is titled "concerto"   

I would go for the Rach 2!!!!

Ah cool! Which pianist do you like? My personal favourites are bill evans and macoy turner. I take your point I do that more often or not automatically ( analysing I mean) when learning a classical piece it's very handy! True Rach 2 might be abit of push with the technic I've got at the moment ( depsite also been told that I play rachmaninov well). Nevertheless I'll have a gander it seems it'll be the battle of the R's Ravel or Rach

[visitor]

how about Kapustin no 2, i have score to this, it's not so bad you can pull it off and it's short. you can do it w a standard jazz/band/orch ensemble

'
'or you can do two pianos (ie the study reduction, published and in print, easy to purchase) w/a drummer and you're set 

 

[dcstudio]

Ah cool! Which pianist do you like? My personal favourites are bill evans and macoy turner. I take your point I do that more often or not automatically ( analysing I mean) when learning a classical piece it's very handy! True Rach 2 might be abit of push with the technic I've got at the moment ( depsite also been told that I play rachmaninov well). Nevertheless I'll have a gander it seems it'll be the battle of the R's Ravel or Rach

Bill Evans rocks as does McCoy Tyner...

I am pretty partial to Oscar Peterson myself...  I also adore a rather obscure pianist named Vince Guaraldi.. he was known for writing the music to the Peanuts cartoons...  Linus and Lucy among many other tunes.   

always wonderful to see another jazzer here!!!  you are most welcome at this forum

[cameronbiles]

how about Kapustin no 2, i have score to this, it's not so bad you can pull it off and it's short. you can do it w a standard jazz/band/orch ensemble

'
'or you can do two pianos (ie the study reduction, published and in print, easy to purchase) w/a drummer and you're set  

 

HOW DO YOU HAVE A SCORE OF THAT!? How much did that cost you? where can you get a score of that I've searched ( probably not the right places) and nothing comes up for that concerto
Edit: just found it and as much as I'm a piano/music student I ain't paying 41 pounds for a piece! XD

[visitor]

HOW DO YOU HAVE A SCORE OF THAT!? How much did that cost you? where can you get a score of that I've searched ( probably not the right places) and nothing comes up for that concerto
Edit: just found it and as much as I'm a piano/music student I ain't paying 41 pounds for a piece! XD

there's bargains to be found. it's on clearance w yammy london, about half that price. i'd pick up two books asap. 

https://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/Concerto-No-2-Op-14/pidCOBS012972284

[dcstudio]

the Kapustin is freakin awesome...    

[cameronbiles]

Just to let people know I ended up choosing the Ravel in the end and is going to order the music this week maybe... Let the fun begin!

[glennross]

Just to let people know I ended up choosing the Ravel in the end and is going to order the music this week maybe... Let the fun begin!

Hey Cameron,

Just wanted to let you know that I'm still busy with the fingering, however, two days ago, my tour began in Europa so I don't have a lot of time until Wednesday.

BW,
Glenn

[cameronbiles]

Hey Cameron,

Just wanted to let you know that I'm still busy with the fingering, however, two days ago, my tour began in Europa so I don't have a lot of time until Wednesday.

BW,
Glenn

That's fine I can crack on with simpler bits of the second movement in the mean time

[dogperson]

Hey Cameron,

Just wanted to let you know that I'm still busy with the fingering, however, two days ago, my tour began in Europa so I don't have a lot of time until Wednesday.

BW,
Glenn

Hi Glenn

Congrats on your European tour!  For those of us that will never have the pleasure, would you mind letting us know where and when you are playing?  I would just like to eat my heart out that a 16 yo on this forum has such a wonderful opportunity    We can live vicariously

[rubinsteinmad]

Hi Glenn

Congrats on your European tour!  For those of us that will never have the pleasure, would you mind letting us know where and when you are playing?  I would just like to eat my heart out that a 16 yo on this forum has such a wonderful opportunity    We can live vicariously

Will he reply?

[jacobsterling]

Will he reply?

Probably not no.

[dogperson]

Hi Glenn

Congrats on your European tour!  For those of us that will never have the plf easure, would you haremind letting us know where and when you are playing?  I would just like to eat my heart out that a 16 yo on this forum has such a wonderful opportunity    We can live vicariously

Hi Glenn

I haven't seen a reply and am still curious of the details of your European tour. Would you take a minute and share what you played and where?  I tried to save you some typing by looking for it myself, but alas, I was not successful..  successes should be shared!

[glennross]

Hi dogperson,

I wasnt around on the forum a lot but anyway. I played in Holland, West and Southern-Germany and also in North-Austria. However, I have no idea if the places where I played have websites too, and I also do not no if we can receive them in North-America, however, I will take a look this evening and look if I can find something. Maybe some recordings too.

BW,
Glenn

[rubinsteinmad]

Hi dogperson,

I wasnt around on the forum a lot but anyway. I played in Holland, West and Southern-Germany and also in North-Austria. However, I have no idea if the places where I played have websites too, and I also do not no if we can receive them in North-America, however, I will take a look this evening and look if I can find something. Maybe some recordings too.

BW,
Glenn

lol

[glennross]

lol

What's so 'lol' about it, if I may ask?

[rubinsteinmad]

What's so 'lol' about it, if I may ask?

Because dogperson was trying to get at you, and you were just like, "BAM! THE PROOF!"

Oh, and pls accept my marriage proposal.

[glennross]

Because dogperson was trying to get at you, and you were just like, "BAM! THE PROOF!"

Oh, and pls accept my marriage proposal.

Oh, well if he did, then he I must have misunderstood his intentions. Anyway, I can't seem to find those websites (if they are even out there), but I'll e-mail the organisation tomorrow to give you guys some more real proof.

Marriage proposal? Are you trying to get at me too?

[dogperson]

Because dogperson was trying to get at you, and you were just like, "BAM! THE PROOF!"

Oh, and pls accept my marriage proposal.

Rubensteinmad, I have exchanged no private messages with you, and your reply about 'my intent' in the question posed, is not yours to guess; you can only supply YOUR intent to a question asked by YOU. 

[rubinsteinmad]

Rubensteinmad, I have exchanged no private messages with you, and your reply about 'my intent' in the question posed, is not yours to guess; you can only supply YOUR intent to a question asked by YOU. 

RubInsteinmad, not RubEnsteinmad. I'm not Rub Enstein Mad. Not intending to sound perverted hear. I'm Rub In Stein Mad.

[rubinsteinmad]

Rubensteinmad, I have exchanged no private messages with you, and your reply about 'my intent' in the question posed, is not yours to guess; you can only supply YOUR intent to a question asked by YOU. 

Take it easy! I was just joking!

[glennross]

Take it easy! I was just joking!

Still no answer on MY question here rubinsteinmad?

What is that. Do you mean your mad over Anton Rubinstein or...?

[rubinsteinmad]

Still no answer on MY question here rubinsteinmad?

What is that. Do you mean your mad over Anton Rubinstein or...?

I'm not mad over anything