How to relax wrists and arms and keep fingers strong while playing?

[faa2010]

I have two piano teachers who have remarked the next two things in my piano:

- when my fingers play the keys, they must be and feel both strong and assertive, that they can be enable to eject power to the keys.
- while playing I must keep relax in both my wrists and arms.

Sometimes I do it and sometimes I can't, I feel that if I relax my wrists and arms, my fingers get weaker and if I do the contrary, my wrists and arms, specially my wrists, become stiff.

Do you know tips about how can I achieve to do both things at the same time?

[outin]

I have two piano teachers who have remarked the next two things in my piano:

- when my fingers play the keys, they must be and feel both strong and assertive, that they can be enable to eject power to the keys.
- while playing I must keep relax in both my wrists and arms.

Sometimes I do it and sometimes I can't, I feel that if I relax my wrists and arms, my fingers get weaker and if I do the contrary, my wrists and arms, specially my wrists, become stiff.

Do you know tips about how can I achieve to do both things at the same time?

Just a suggestion: Don't think too much about relaxing any specific part of your body. Rather think about how to be flexible and move fluently all the way up to the shoulders and upper torso. Think about your shoulders being dynamic, you are not just moving your hands but your shoulders as well. It's not the wrists that are the problem necessarily but stiffness of shoulders. Understanding and working on this helped me a lot. On very stiff days I still have trouble working the fingers without tensing the wrists, but I now know why and can work on it.

If you are too stiff and cannot get a feeling of your arms being easy to manouver, you might be too stiff in your upper body. I think it helped me a lot to understand that the shoulders should move from the chest, not just the arms from the shoulder. You might need some exercise to get that flexibility though.

And also, do you sit too low? I have very long arms and I have found playing a lot easier when I sit higher than what people my height usually would. The other option for me is to sit very far, but that makes pedalling harder.

[adodd81802]

I second Outins point.

I am assuming you are sitting at the right height and distance (something your teacher should have identified if you werent)

You mentioned if you relax your wrists you lose finger strength. I think there's 2 things we should note here.

Relaxing wrists doesn't mean floppy wrists. It's misleading as they tell you to "shake it out" etc to have relaxed wrists is to have wrists that move freely when you're playing. It also means having good wrist posture the forearm, wrist and hand should all be a near straight line with the exception of the occasions when you may need to rise it slightly to get some real power down on chords.

Secondly, finger strength ... there isn't really such thing. There are no muscles in the fingers only tendons activated by our forearms where the muscles lie. Dexterity can come from the fingers yes, but strength no not primarily that comes from the correct hand, the correct wrist and correct forearm. When you think of using your fingers, think of pushing the power from your forearm muscles into the fingers, in some cases (definitely the thumb) you can ever so slightly rotate your forearm into the movement rather than making it an isolated finger / thumb movement.

There's a few videos on scales on youtube that teach you to keep your elbows in when doing the thumb under / finger over movement which can only be achieved by freely moving the wrists, maybe look up a couple of those, if you find you flare your elbows out quickly when doing specific awkward movements that could be a sign of stiff wrists.

I mean failing that - ask your teachers more what they mean you're paying them to teach not to leave you guessing ask them to physically show you what you're doing wrong.

[hfmadopter]

Exercise away from the piano. You can do this sitting at a table using each finger or a combination of fingers. you can even do it in your lap or on your knee sitting in an airplane seat or where ever. Put light to moderate pressure on the finger/fingers rotating your wrists around a 360 deg arch. allow some flex at various joints but don't lose that pressure against the table/lap/knee. After you accomplish this take it to the piano. A few minutes a day will help. In time you will find flexibility while playing, don't expect over night miracles but on the other hand you should see progress relatively soon.

Do note that the one typing this is still too stiff in playing octaves in any new piece and I didn't start playing piano yesterday or even a decade ago lol ! We Always have to keep technique in mind, even your teachers. It's funny this post is here this morning, I'm working on a new piece of my own composition and have decided on a two handed octave climb up a scale in Em ( something I haven't done in a long time), first thing I thought, "oooh how stiff" !!! This came to me about noon yesterday.  By last evening it was a little better but this morning I'm using a little of my own advise to you, sitting here rotating  my wrists and forearms around fingers holding steady pressure against the table top . It's a bit more difficult to do with octaves because of the two outer most fingers of each hand bringing the tripod effect from the elbow to the finger tips but you still have vertical movement and shoulders to some extent.. you can always move the wrists up and down too keeping controlled pressure.

[laus1]

Actually, there is a way to examine and train your fingers. I have a little trick I use on my students to improve their awareness of the fingers. (I learned from one of my teachers when pressing a key, the tone has to go straight through the floor and focus on that when touching the key) You get more focus on the hand and less on your wrist and arms, which is helpful to keep them as straight as possible (without the tension feeling).

I call my little method, finger karate. It is a good way to get aware of your fingertips and the muscle in your fingers. it goes like this, form a nice umbrella (hand holding an imaginary tennis ball and with your index finger from the other hand you press slightly in the middle of the bowed hand). Now you have as good as a perfect hand position (and the wrist and arms are almost in a natural angle). Just keep things straight. (when you do this in the air, you will notice when your fingers are a little tens and you press with your index finger from the other hand in the middle, your fingers will get a kind relax position and this is exactly what you need...also you need to put your arm like you are playing the piano (so on the site in front of you) and you can lean also a bit with your arm on the finger. This is the feeling I guess of relaxing your fingers and arms).

Place your both hands like this on any flat and hard surface and start tapping on your fingertips (you are not aloud to hear your fingernails ticking). You can make some more tension in your fingers by making a kind of contraction (like holding the tennis ball more tight, you notice when doing in the air, your thumb and pinkie finger move out and your other three fingers move slightly up) and keep tapping a few more times to get the feeling of your fingertips and the tension in the fingers. (not too hard of course ehehehe). If you feel your wrist going up or down, try again by keeping it straight again with the umbrella method. You must feel all fingers at once and you can switch from left and right and and at the same time together. Play with it! (also like playing five notes separately is a good practice with this methode).

You can try to switch from tens to relax of the hand and fingers during the tapping and eventually you can try this with some chords on the piano to get the feeling. I guess this method makes you aware of the muscle tension during playing the piano. Some may mistaken this for strengthen the fingers, but actually it is to get awareness and develop flex technique for your fingers. I learned actually, to never ever move your wrists and arms up and down (unless for big jumps), but always move in the directions of going up or down in movements (so literally left and right moves with your wrist and arms).

I find myself sometimes tension in my wrist and arms, but its normal. Its a good thing you already are aware it happens sometimes. And than you can take even more quick action to relax and position your arms correctly again.

I hope this may help!

Ciao!

[outin]

I have no problem about talking about finger strength as long as everyone is one the same page about what it means. As functioning units fingers can work weakly or strongly even though the muscles using them are situated elsewhere. And similarly weakness can refer to lack of stability in joints (often a problem with those of us who are hypermobile)

[laus1]

I have no problem about talking about finger strength as long as everyone is one the same page about what it means. As functioning units fingers can work weakly or strongly even though the muscles using them are situated elsewhere. And similarly weakness can refer to lack of stability in joints (often a problem with those of us who are hypermobile)

In that case, you may try what I described in the finger karate technique, forming the umbrella. This may help you research to relax and tense your muscles. Also having made this umbrella a good thing is to move your fingers like playing the piano, or press them down like you press the keys. Still leaning on that index finger will do the trick to learn about relaxing and still move your fingers (this is, you can also use this while playing the piano. Just position your hand like described as an umbrella or holding a tennis ball and while pressing the keys, you put with your other hand the index finger in the middle and sometimes give a little pressure).
Let me know how it works for you!

[dcstudio]

I had a prof at university who taught this very thing by having his students hold their hands high over different chords and then drop them on to the keys--the trick is to not pull up or tense your hands but to let gravity pull your hands down and land perfectly on the desired chord.   He was fond of using different inversions of dom7's for this exercise. Relax everything---your shoulders, your arms, your neck----and just drop.   This is designed to train your brain to anticipate the precise amount of energy required to achieve the nice solid sound you are looking for.   It may be a little awkward but keep trying you will get it.   This also helps free your hands up a bit.  If you are overly tense in the arms or the wrists this usually means you are forcing something...


Hope this helps.   

[themeandvariation]

dc…. you have described  - what is gone into (with many variations) the *Philipp* exercises..
This is an exercise Seldom mentioned here… but this small book to my mind, Towers in effectiveness compared to the stack of others books on the subject.  It is ideal for finger independence (perfect practice for polyphonic sensitivity) and a most relaxed technique.   Philipp!
The exercises are Not meant to be played quickly… but rather very slowly,.. and releasing all tension with every 'strike/pull ' of the key… a slight (but at first, much exaggerated!)  circular motion is employed with arm and wrist.  Shoulders Down. The back is erect without tension. Notice breathing.  Feet flat on the floor..   He uses the diminished 7 chord.. Most notes are held while 1 or 2 are stuck with each hand, repeatedly -- at least 8x.

[themeandvariation]

ps.. I should have emphasized 'the dropping of the wrist' - is fundamental to this..

[dcstudio]

well thanks theme    now I know where it came from... now that I think about it that may have been mentioned--Phillips ---but it's been decades.

Although I credit my technique to more than just this--it was fundamental to my development.  I liked this exercise too... it was fun and I knew my dom7s really well after that, too. It's simple and effective.. perhaps that's why it's not mentioned much..it's too easy. 

The most noticeable change was how I set my hand up for large jumps... totally relaxed until the precise second the note sounds..and the dynamic range and control it has given me is amazing compared to what it was..  this truly did wonders for my endurance, too..  my hands don't seem to ever get tired or fatigued no matter how long I play.

I just quietly describe this same thing every time someone asks this question...  I am hoping maybe someone will give it a try.  It worked for me.