Please help me choose a Debussy piece!

[cam943]

Hi Pianostreet,

I'm a piano student who's now starting to play pieces at a Grade 10 RCM level. I'm also a big Debussy fan!   I just finished "Minstrels" from the Preludes Book 1, and I'm on to my next Debussy piece. I'm thinking of either playing the very famous Arabesque no. 1, or the less famous but still equally beautiful, Doctor gradus ad Parnassum from Children's Corner. They are both listed as Grade 10 pieces for RCM.

Arabesque no. 1 is a very nice piece and I'm quite familiar with it because I've been listening to it since I was 6 (I'm 14 now) from our electronic yamaha piano. It's twice as long as Doctor gradus ad Parnassum (6 pages compared to 3), so I'm thinking that it would keep me entertained longer, since my teacher will probably only let me do one more Debussy piece this year.

I just picked up on Doctor gradus ad Parnassum and I think it would be a nice choice since it's an easier Grade 10 piece and it is very nice, but it is so short and even though I would enjoy every moment of playing it, I think I would complete it in a shorter amount of time, and then no more Debussy until September 2016.

What are your guys opinions on these pieces? I want to know what you guys think about them and what you think I should play.

If you don't know what Doctor gradus ad Parnassum sounds like, here's the youtube video:

Thank you!

~Cam943

[pianoman1349]

This really depends on what exactly you are using the Debussy for...the situation in which the Debussy will be played really determines which piece to play.  To be totally honest, you really learn both, but I'll outline my thoughts below.

Dr. Gradus: I call this the classic RCM 10 exam List D selection.  Dr. Gradus does really well in examinations, where you can consistently score 9/10 to 10/10 on the selection (based on the results of approximately 100 students).  Simply put, this piece only requires clear fingerwork in the passagework at an appropriate speed, with the dynamics markings observed to get a very high mark.  The final anime a peu a peu needs to get faster...to the final Tres Anime section, and that is basically all that is required to get your marks.

Arabeque #1: This is a great piece for parties, recitals and virtually every situation where you don't really care about being evaluated for a numerical score.  People love this piece and it's a lot of fun to play.  It is at the same technical level as Dr. Gradus.  Musically more challenging, as you have to fight the urge to over-emote and become Brahms-sounding.  Over than that, a great piece.

Best of luck on whatever you choose.  Both are great choices

[cam943]

Thank you so much for your reply, pianoman1349. Deeply appreciated.

When you asked for what I might be using these for, I think there is a possibility of playing them for an exam this year, but most likely not. I probably will end up doing both eventually, but I have to pick one or the other for this year. I'll probably end up playing it for a recital, but I don't want that to be my goal. I just want to finish it so that I can play it, and what a great feeling you have when you finish and can play a great song over and over!

I'm thinking of playing the Arabesque no. 1 this year and saving Doctor for next year, but i just wanted to know some more ideas. Are there any other souls here that could offer advice or insight?

Cam943

[chopinlover01]

I'd do the entire Children's Corner suite if it were up to me 
In all seriousness, look at The Snow is Dancing from Children's Corner. Great piece, slightly longer than Doc GAP.

[cam943]

I looked at The Snow is Dancing. Amazing piece! I think I'll save that one for next year just because I'm not the greatest at voicing, and I think that would be a little tricky for me.

Unfortunately I don't have the time to play the entire Children's Corner, although I've already played "The Little Shepherd" last year. Of course the even more famous "Clair de Lune" exists, but I think that it's well overplayed. Is it possible for anyone to do a direct comparison of Arabesque and Doctor?

Cam943

[sabtan]

I do recommend listening to Suite Bergamasque ( Prelude) and see if you like that.
That's something that's quite different from his Children's corner. Has a grand entry in the beginning but very nice melodies in the middle.
It's not as common as his other pieces.

Deux Arabesque is always nice of course.
If you want something fun, Golliwogg's cake walk is also fun.

From a fellow Debussy fan to another, good luck!  

[briansaddleback]

I can play dr gradus at the required tempo and w clear precise fingerwork (dynamics is still difficult when played on an upright that has a narrower range in dynamics response as this piece requires constant pp or p right up until the end which gets forte) but it took me awhile to get here.  I have worked on that piece over a year and a half at certain times, yes, it takes only a few days to memorize the piece but don't let that fool you.  It has a lot of tricky finger work you must be able to delineate out and at the rapid pianissimo (which imo is a great gauge to someone's technical prowess on the piano) it is more difficult to get to a refined performance level than most (in piano forums usually) will let on to you.

[cam943]

Can the fingering in Dr Gradus be compared to something like a Bach fugue, which requires lots of finger switching and awkward and unorthodox fingering? Or can it be compared to something else?

[briansaddleback]

I haven't played a fugue by Bach so I wouldn't know but if it is similar in finger technicalities that an invention has , then no. 

I would compare the fingering to be more akin to let say the Chopin etude chromatic or torrent. But to a lesser degree of course. The fingering at the fast tempo and toccata sustain like character can get the fingers all intertwined or jumbled up so I had to go precisely slow and firmly work out my finger AND wrist movements for it to succeed in the fluidity of fingers and thus fluidity of the sound. 

[briansaddleback]

I do love Debussy and particularly children suite and suite Bergamasque as well. Glad to see other Debussy fans in here.  He is a brilliant composer and his ideas and harmonies are one of a kind.

I also love snow is dancing. It is a beautiful and sort of dark piece to play during a winter day.  Perfect. I did practice it last year a bit but stopped as the technical hurdles in it near the end was becoming a little too much for me at that time. It has a LOT of awkward hand and finger positioning like a fugue maybe?
I also worked on Prelude from SB as well but stopped going through w it almost to its entirety but got hung up on that repeating delicate  middle section that is very difficult to get your hand to arrive to a different register to be in time w tempo.  I was hitting a ceiling there so I put it away. I would be coming back to both of these soon as my technique has definitely matured since last year.

[sabtan]

@briansaddleback

I've found the key with Debussy.. you need lots of slow practice.
The slow practice helps you with clearing all the difficult fingerwork, then you can focus on the tempo after that.

Hah, try working any of his Images pieces.. totally another level of difficulty !
Thought I was okay with Reflets dans l'eau until recently preparing for a recital.. boy that's a lot of work involved.
Managed to get there in the end.
Patience, and slow practice, as usual.

[briansaddleback]

@briansaddleback

I've found the key with Debussy.. you need lots of slow practice.
The slow practice helps you with clearing all the difficult fingerwork, then you can focus on the tempo after that.

Hah, try working any of his Images pieces.. totally another level of difficulty !
Thought I was okay with Reflets dans l'eau until recently preparing for a recital.. boy that's a lot of work involved.
Managed to get there in the end.
Patience, and slow practice, as usual.

Hi, thanks, I am not at the level of learning the Image sets ( I have dabbled a bit in the Hommage a Rameau(?)) however, I do agree with you. You need clearly a methodical, deliberate focus on hand/wrist/finger movements and hearing at a slow tempo for most of the practice with these.

Reflets if you can perform it kudos.. it is an epic level piece.  Slow practicing a monumental piece like that (or Lisle Joyeuse or Masque <my favorite bucket list piece> ) would take me perhaps at least 2 or 3 years. So for now, I rest on trying to learn his shorter compositions like Reverie, Bergamasque suite, Children's Corner, and some of the preludes.

[visitor]

[visitor]

you could also consider a piece based on something of Debussy, ie

[visitor]

or you can also explore music that he inspired, he Hamauzu (here in colab w N.U.) is heavily influenced by Debussy, it shows through more in some projects than others, I hear it a lot in here

[kevonthegreatpianist]

the doctor ad gradus is HARD :P!!!! much harder than arabesque 1

you could play clair de lune, or the prelude for the pour le piano, pour le piano is very difficult, but you could try

[rubinsteinmad]

Nice

[rubinsteinmad]

the doctor ad gradus is HARD !!!! much harder than arabesque 1

you could play clair de lune, or the prelude for the pour le piano, pour le piano is very difficult, but you could try

Sorry to pick on you, but the word "much" will make people not take you seriously.

Oh, and try Jimbo's lullaby. It sounds like guqin music.,

[ajlongspiano]

Play his Ballade!

[pencilart3]

Play his Ballade!

+1

[cam943]

Thanks guys! All these pieces are really great, but I have an even bigger problem; how am I supposed to play all of these awesome songs I don't even have time for? x_x

Regardless of this, I still feel like I want more ideas and great songs! Keep on posting!

Here's my current take:

Songs I might begin learning shortly: Arabesque no. 1, Doctor Gradus ad Parnassum, The Snow is Dancing, Prelude or Clair de Lune from Suite Bergamasque

Songs that are too hard for me but I want to learn now: L'isle joyeuse, Ballade, Reflets dans l'eau

Keep it coming! I love the pieces you give. 

~Cam943

[kevonthegreatpianist]

Play his Ballade!

i like his nocturne

[chopinlover01]

I'd do the entire Children's Corner suite if it were up to me 

You forgot my advice 
Seriously though, the entire suite is wonderful.

[ffchopinist]

Not quite sure what grade 10 for RCM is equivalent to in other systems (ABRSM, etc.) or repertoire and if this fits in with what you're looking for in terms of technical level, but another Debussy piece I particularly love is "Jardins Sous La Pluie" (Gardens in the Rain) from Estampes.

P.S. The Arabesque is fun to play, though less Debussy-esque (less dissonance compared with some of his "less publicly accessible" pieces imo). I love that piece, and I find non-classical music enthusiasts usually don't mind listening to that one.

[pencilart3]

P.S. The Arabesque is fun to play, though less Debussy-esque (less dissonance). I love that piece.

Which one?

[ffchopinist]

The 1st; I haven't played the 2nd.  (Is the 2nd one fun / worth taking the time to learn?)

Which one?

[pencilart3]

The 1st; I haven't played the 2nd.  (Is the 2nd one fun / worth taking the time to learn?)

I've played both, and I found that the 1st was much easier. Much, much, MUCH easier. Gosh the second is very hard, especially when you're in concert under the pressure of the audience. But once you can execute it right, oh boy it's sooo rewarding.

[oullman7130]

If you are willing to do some extra work, I highly reccomend Gardens in the Rain from Debussy's Estampes. It sounds extremely hard, but is really just flashy. If you are playing grade 10 you would be able to play it with diligent practice and some work, it's also very fun to play!