"Touch and Press" as discussed in Murray McLachlan's "Foundations of Technique"

[georgey]

Murray McLachlan states in his book "Foundations of Technique" Chapter 3:  "True finger independence for pianists means using each digit in turn without any movement from the others in the same hand.  It is a vital basic skill".  He then states that "Hanon's suggestion that 'fingers should be lifted high' is a guaranteed way of creating tension and stiffness in your wrists.  He also states that "touch and press is a beautiful, relaxed approach to piano technique".  He describes the touch and press as follows: "... place all your fingers on the keyboard on the five-finger position and imagining that each fingertip has been glued down to the keys.  Without lifting the fingers, practice producing sounds with each note in turn."

I am new to the piano forum.  I apologize if that has already been a topic of discussion.  I am self-taught at this point having started piano 10 years ago at age 47.  I very recently retired from my actuarial job of 30 years.  I am looking forward to practicing many hours and begin piano lessons!  The 2 most important developments in my piano playing have been the following very recent changes:  1) The touch and press technique and 2) purchase of the Yamaha Avantgrand N1.  Thank you.

[birba]

That's fine i think for a legato singing technique.  But what about the virtuosistic passages?  I was fortunate to have studied with several great teachers here in italy that taught a technique which really perfected that phrase you quoted here about each finger being completely independent from the others. There were 4and5 finger excercises, practised VERY slowly.  With the hand very still you like snap the finger up very high and let it fall and strike the key.  It's one very fast movement of the finger only, with no participation of the hand or forearm.  I was schooled in the breithaupt technique, and this complemented that weight touch which is also based on the no tension concept.

[birba]

Ah, one other thing..  The third and fourth fingers act together.  That is, the articulation will always affect those two together.  And the fifth, as well, to a certain extent.

[keypeg]

Something that makes me uneasy.  Finger independence can be thought of as meaning that you have to hold the other fingers still and not allow them to move.  If you hold anything rigid, that creates tension or even injury.  So should that goal be tweaked?

[birba]

But no, that's just it.  There's no tension whatsoever in the hand and the other fingers when you articulate.  That's why the 3rd and fourth fingers and to a certain extent the fifth move with the articulation of these fingers. You don't "hold" anything still.  That, indeed, would cause tension.

[keypeg]

But no, that's just it.  There's no tension whatsoever in the hand and the other fingers when you articulate.  That's why the 3rd and fourth fingers and to a certain extent the fifth move with the articulation of these fingers. You don't "hold" anything still.  That, indeed, would cause tension.

That is very important to mention.  Anyone self-teaching without the guidance of someone observing and giving feedback can get the wrong idea.  I was once in that situation.  The text quoted by the OP says to imagine your fingers glued to the keys - it depends how that imagery is incorporated.

I'm going through my own remediation and retraining since I started self-taught years ago before returning to piano 35 years later.  So I'm learning to allow other fingers to have their natural responses, or to have the wrist still be loose and responsive, knowing that even if master pianists seem to be motionless, knowing they aren't really.  It isn't how I imagined it when all I had were my own imagination and later books and web-sites.

[birba]

I totally agree with you.  Sometimes a video helps, but without the interaction of student teacher, it's virtually impossible to explain and describe these things.

[cinnamon21]

That's fine i think for a legato singing technique.  But what about the virtuosistic passages?  I was fortunate to have studied with several great teachers here in italy that taught a technique which really perfected that phrase you quoted here about each finger being completely independent from the others. There were 4and5 finger excercises, practised VERY slowly.  With the hand very still you like snap the finger up very high and let it fall and strike the key.  It's one very fast movement of the finger only, with no participation of the hand or forearm.  I was schooled in the breithaupt technique, and this complemented that weight touch which is also based on the no tension concept.

Hi Birba, I was also taught by a great pianist to do this 'snapping the fingers high then fall and strike the key' when I ask him how to have 'stronger...sort of more active' fingers. So are you saying 4/5th fingers holding exercises like Pischna are good?

[birba]

NO!!!  Because you're physically holding down the fourth and fifth fingers and creating tension.  The third, fourth, and fifth fingers are connected and naturally follow each other.  And the "snapping" movement is a sort of prensile movement.  They're naturally curved.
This is the problem of explaining things via internet.  You just can't!
Actually i did try Pischna after i had assimilated this technique,  and when you hold down fingers while playing the others, you can only make a minimal movement without straining.  This idea of "strengthening" the fingers, i personally find to be hogwash.  I think the only muscle in your hand that is visibly strengthened is that muscle on the side of the palm below the fifth finger.

[dcstudio]

This is the problem of explaining things via internet.  You just can't!

no doubt.

too much room for misinterpretation

press and release is great as a fundamental way of thinking about technique... it's a great place start... however it is not possible to achieve every desired sound texture using this one way of playing...and really--once you hit the higher levels--technique is something that's so automatic that it's no big deal anymore. At least that's been my experience.  I agree with Birba...who btw has some of the most polished an awesome chops of anyone here...if he has taken the time to answer this post... you may want to listen.

 

[georgey]

Thank you all for the discussion!!

The following last post I believe is spot on: "press and release is great as a fundamental way of thinking about technique... it's a great place start... however it is not possible to achieve every desired sound texture using this one way of playing...and really--once you hit the higher levels--technique is something that's so automatic that it's no big deal anymore."

I am a starter (beginner).  I completed 1/2 my work for a Master's degree in classical guitar performance at the University of Toronto in 1984 before giving up the guitar and going back to school for a math degree.  I have only been practicing piano about 45 minutes a day for the last 10 years having started piano from scratch at age 47.  I am a beginner.  I will be practicing 20-30 hours a week minimum now that I am retired.

Prior to using the "touch and press",  I was struggling to play the beginner level piece Beethoven Op79, 1st Mvt.  My left hand looked contorted and I was unable to play at the presto tempo without "ugly hands and ugly sound" the simple opening left hand figure.  My LEFT hand had many "kinks" that my right hand did not.  I could not figure out why, but assumed that it may be due to the motion required for left hand fretboard work of the classical guitar and my not starting piano until age 47.  The plucking motion used in the RIGHT hand originates from the large knuckles (the "bridge" as Mclachlan calls it) and resembles the motion to some degree the motion required for the piano playing.

Here is what I have noticed having practiced what I call "Hannon type" exercises in all 24 keys using Mclachlan's chapter 3 "touch and press" technique for about 100 hours:  I am able to play this OP. 79 piece with nice looking, motionless hands, with much greater ease of execution and quality sound.  I plan on spending another 1000 hours in the upcoming year on this concept until it becomes "automatic" as mentioned in the last post.  Thank you!

[dcstudio]

say what you want about hannon...  I sure played a lot of it when I was young and it worked well for me.   Students generally refuse to spend enough time on exercises for them to be beneficial...it is nice to hear that you have invested the time and that you have seen results.

"touch and press" is a great place to start...and it will become automatic

best of luck to you and post your playing so we can watch your progress..

and I would say that 45 mins a day for 10 years qualifies you as NOT a beginner...   you are likely far more able than you realize.

[georgey]

Thank you for your kind words of encouragement.  I think we both misspelled Hanon (I started it).  Posting my playing will give me something to work toward.  It won’t be for at least 1-2 years though.  I need to try to master touch and press first. Pieces I am working on are: Bach WTC book 1 prelude and fugue in C, Beethoven op 79 sonata 1st mvt, Brahms sonata #3, OP 5 slow MVT, Chopin military polonaise.  I will continue to read pianostreet.  Thanks again to all!

[dcstudio]

yeah... I played so much Hanon that now there are 2 N's Hannon.

[keypeg]

To really get a picture, we would have to hear and preferably see.  I'm not sure that a "motionless hand" is anything desirable, so that fact that it's motionless does not tell me anything.  As someone who is remediating on two instruments, I'm not just throwing up smoke screens.  The Beethoven is not a "beginner" piece, and with these sonatas it is not just a matter of getting the right notes at the right tempo - there is more to it.  If possible, I'd invest in a teacher, or at least have someone competent have a real and honest look and listen, for feedback.

[keypeg]

double post

[georgey]

I agree about a teacher.  I will consult one in the next 6 months.  We have many fine teachers in the Harrisburg, Pennsylvania (USA) area. Our Harrisburg symphony is great.  I hope to study with Ya-Ting Chang, if she will have me as a student.

Clarification:  The slow mvt of the Brahms 3rd sonata I am working on is the 2nd movement (not the 4th) of this final piano sonata he wrote in 5 mvts. This movement was written by a very young Brahms I think around the time he visited the Schuman's in 1853 (I may be off by a year).  Brahms’s rival was Wagner.  I believe several years after this sonata was written, Wagner commented how much he liked the coda of the 2nd mvt of this sonata.  This is a rare complement from Wagner. It is a great piece!  He also greatly admired Brahms Requiem.

[dcstudio]

To really get a picture, we would have to hear and preferably see.  I'm not sure that a "motionless hand" is anything desirable, so that fact that it's motionless does not tell me anything.  As someone who is remediating on two instruments, I'm not just throwing up smoke screens.  The Beethoven is not a "beginner" piece, and with these sonatas it is not just a matter of getting the right notes at the right tempo - there is more to it.  If possible, I'd invest in a teacher, or at least have someone competent have a real and honest look and listen, for feedback.

that's my keypeg...    yes I agree... 

often times with the self-taught they think they are playing things perfectly or at least reasonably well...and it's just not the case at all.