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Who is the most overrated pianist? Pick 3 at most.

Lang Lang
Hamelin
Jorge Bolet
Emmanuel Ax
Van Cliburn
Other (Specify)

Most overrated pianists? (Read 5654 times)

Offline kypiano

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Most overrated pianists?
« on: September 12, 2015, 01:07:01 AM »
I don't think you'll need the poll choice "other", but I just put it there in respect to Lang Lang, Hamelin, and Jorge Bolet  ::)

Oh, and if you were wondering why Lisitsa is not included, it's because she's pretty musical, especially when compared to some other... cough.......musicless clowns. Note that "overrated" is not the same thing as "famous". Besides, why would you choose Lisitsa if you have the choices of Lang Lang, Jorge Bolet, and Hamelin??? I mean, max number of votes IS THREE ::)
  

 
  
 

Offline ajlongspiano

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #1 on: September 12, 2015, 01:50:38 AM »
Hamelin and Bolet?! WHAT?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline ajlongspiano

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #2 on: September 12, 2015, 01:52:44 AM »
Go listen to Hamelin's recording of Ballade 4 and tell me he's second rate ;)

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #3 on: September 12, 2015, 02:43:52 AM »

overrated or not... they make a good living and I say more power to them...all of them.  It really doesn't matter to me how they interpret (or NOT) their pieces they make a living performing classical music...and that's awesome.  

why do they bother you?  I understand that some of them do play better than others but still... why does it bother you that someone is hyped up more than they deserve?  this genre is dying guys... anyone who can get people to come listen to classical piano should be applauded... they are making it easier for YOU to make a living by creating a wider audience.

wouldn't you agree?  ;D

I would thank Lang Lang if I met him... I have had more than a few students sign up because they saw this guy on YT... lol. 

Offline pencilart3

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #4 on: September 12, 2015, 03:07:40 AM »
Go listen to Hamelin's recording of Ballade 4 and tell me he's second rate

Ok, I'm following your instructions:

1. I just listened to ballade 4.
2. Ok, "He is second rate".

Did I pass? ;D
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Offline ajlongspiano

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #5 on: September 12, 2015, 03:53:23 AM »
You just don't understand little man...

Offline outin

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #6 on: September 12, 2015, 03:55:05 AM »
Ok, I'm following your instructions:

1. I just listened to ballade 4.
2. Ok, "He is second rate".

Did I pass? ;D

Do you know what a huge repertoire he has? And he is playing stuff no-one else does...He's also extremely well educated in music.

You didn't like his Chopin...why don't you try something else?


Offline pencilart3

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #7 on: September 12, 2015, 04:34:13 AM »
You didn't like his Chopin...why don't you try something else?

You assume I haven't? I mean I'm not saying I could do better, I just don't like him. Kind of like katsaris ;)

You just don't understand little man...

I think I do, er... big... boy? ;D
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Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #8 on: September 12, 2015, 09:14:33 AM »
Other.

That other probably is Lisitsa. Mediocre musician with a professional's technique. For the record, LL is imo considerably better than her. He makes stupid faces, does odd things musically, but his touch is much better and when his performance works, it's usually very good. He is insanely overhyped by the industry, but comes in for so much flak I find it hard to consider him overrated.

Hamelin I'm not a fan of, but he has done so much good for neglected composers (plus having a fine technique) that I'm usually loth to criticise him overmuch.

Bolet? What??? One of the finest Liszt and Rachmaninov pianists who ever lived. Absolutely beautiful tone, and a technique to match, just one he never flaunted. He's still a connoisseur's pianist, even now. How can he possibly be overrated?

Offline outin

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #9 on: September 12, 2015, 09:52:31 AM »
You assume I haven't? I mean I'm not saying I could do better, I just don't like him. Kind of like katsaris ;)

Which reminds me, have to listen to that sonata in whole...

So, you don't like Katsaris who fools around with the music and you don't like Hamelin, who almost never does, but plays everything by the book...who did you like again?

I have quite a few recordings of Hamelin and many are not among my favorite interpretations. But there are some that I have enjoyed a lot, like his Medtner sonata 1. But that's not in YT it seems. Anyway, he is definitely a first class pianist, even if he is not one with a great personal touch. I have wondered if it's partly because he is playing so much new repertoire instead of just the same old ones...

Offline stevensk

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #10 on: September 12, 2015, 10:55:24 AM »

Look at these sentences:

1)  "I dont like his playing"
2)  "He is not a good pianist"

2 is not a consequence of no 1

3) "He is an overated pianist" is not a consequence or equivalent whith 1 or 2.

Offline kypiano

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #11 on: September 12, 2015, 02:59:45 PM »
Other.

That other probably is Lisitsa. Mediocre musician with a professional's technique. For the record, LL is imo considerably better than her. He makes stupid faces, does odd things musically, but his touch is much better and when his performance works, it's usually very good. He is insanely overhyped by the industry, but comes in for so much flak I find it hard to consider him overrated.

Hamelin I'm not a fan of, but he has done so much good for neglected composers (plus having a fine technique) that I'm usually loth to criticise him overmuch.

Bolet? What??? One of the finest Liszt and Rachmaninov pianists who ever lived. Absolutely beautiful tone, and a technique to match, just one he never flaunted. He's still a connoisseur's pianist, even now. How can he possibly be overrated?

Well basically most people who graduated from Curtis have good touch. But musically Lisitsa has more understanding than Lang Lang has IMO (I'm a fan of pretty rubato and accelerandos hehe, I'm NOT a fan of metronomic senseless playing)

Offline glennross

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #12 on: September 12, 2015, 04:09:34 PM »
Well basically most people who graduated from Curtis have good touch. But musically Lisitsa has more understanding than Lang Lang has IMO (I'm a fan of pretty rubato and accelerandos hehe, I'm NOT a fan of metronomic senseless playing)

But since when is metronomic playing regarded senseless?
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Offline pencilart3

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #13 on: September 12, 2015, 04:15:31 PM »
who did you like again?

Uh boy, do you really want to get that one rolling? ;D *clears his throat, takes a deep breath, and...*

So, you don't like Katsaris who fools around with the music and you don't like Hamelin, who almost never does, but plays everything by the book...

...which is why I don't like either of them. I don't like either extreme, just somewhere in the middle. Some freedom and creativity but not so far that you completely abandon the score.
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Offline outin

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #14 on: September 12, 2015, 04:54:57 PM »
Uh boy, do you really want to get that one rolling?

Certainly! I am much interested in what you like :)
In addition to Rafal whose last name I cannot spell right now...

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #15 on: September 12, 2015, 05:01:28 PM »
Hamelin is all fingers and no soul. I would rather watch someone painting a fence than listen to any more of his bland efforts.

Thal
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Offline outin

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #16 on: September 12, 2015, 05:02:47 PM »
Hamelin is all fingers and no soul. I would rather watch someone painting a fence than listen to any more of his bland efforts.

I wouldn't have thought YOU believe in soul... ;)

Offline kypiano

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #17 on: September 12, 2015, 05:36:51 PM »
Hamelin is all fingers and no soul. I would rather watch someone painting a fence than listen to any more of his bland efforts.

Thal

He has fingers?????

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #18 on: September 12, 2015, 05:52:04 PM »
There are no overrated pianists. The end.

Offline pencilart3

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #19 on: September 12, 2015, 07:14:19 PM »
Certainly! I am much interested in what you like :)
In addition to Rafal whose last name I cannot spell right now...

Certainly! I am much interested in what you like :)
In addition to Rafal whose last name I cannot spell right now...

Yes Rafal Blechacz is a complete genius.
I think Zimerman might have him slightly beat but he gets the glory he deserves :D I saw him live. :)
Pollini is fantastic. Some say he's boring but I don't think so at all.
Ashkenazy is excellent, his Liszt etudes are unmatchable.
Lugansky has some fantastic Bach recordings.
I haven't listened to a ton of Tiempo recordings but he's technically incredible to say the least.
Pascal Roge has very nice touch I esp. like his interpretation of ravel's ondine.
Daniel Barenboim is classic, his Songs without Words are the best, and of course his Beethoven Sonatas.
Kissin has some excellent concerti, I don't like his solo stuff too much but his grieg concerto... :o
Anatol Ugorski has some creative ideas.
Sean Chen is one of the most musical players ever.
Vadym Kholodenko is completely beast. Both him and Sean Chen gave me some free pointers :D I've also seen them both play live. :o :o :o :o
Peter Schmalfuss is very solid. Him + Chopin's barcarolle = heaven on earth.
Dieter Goldman has some nice ones, his Liebestraum is perfect.
Idil Biret is pretty good also.
There are many more that I like, but those are pretty much my favs.

In conclusion... (;D)

I like: Zimerman, Blechacz, Pollini, Ashkenazy, Lugasky, Tiempo, Roge, Barenboim, Kissin, Ugosrki, Chen, Kholodenko, Schmalfuss, Goldman, and Biret.

I DO NOT like Schiff, Rubinstein, Horowitz, Katsaris, Argerich, Hamelin, Pogorelich, Lang Lang, and Trifonov isn't my favorite.
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Offline outin

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #20 on: September 12, 2015, 07:36:59 PM »

I like: Zimerman, Blechacz, Pollini, Ashkenazy, Lugasky, Tiempo, Roge, Barenboim, Kissin, Ugosrki, Chen, Kholodenko, Schmalfuss, Goldman, and Biret.

I DO NOT like Schiff, Rubinstein, Horowitz, Katsaris, Argerich, Hamelin, Pogorelich, Lang Lang, and Trifonov isn't my favorite.

So it seems we do both agree and disagree...

I don't care that much for Horowitz either and I cannot stand Rubinstein's Chopin, but I thought I was the only one (except for madFaulty). Schiff is another matter, I love him, but that's because I'm so much into Baroque. He's one of the few pianists that can even make me feel compelled to listen to Bach.

It seems you listen to a lot of Chopin  ;D
Surprised you like Barenboim, because his Chopin kind of sucks...? (But I do also like his Mendelssohn recordings).


Offline glennross

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #21 on: September 12, 2015, 07:47:06 PM »
These ones seem pretty overrated by me:

- Lugansky
- Pollini
- Rubinstein
- Argerich
- Katsaris
- Goldman
- Lang Lang
- Fray

Just my opninion.
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Offline pencilart3

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #22 on: September 12, 2015, 08:01:16 PM »
Schiff is another matter, I love him, but that's because I'm so much into Baroque. He's one of the few pianists that can even make me feel compelled to listen to Bach.

Yes, Schiff is pretty good at Bach, but he puts random slurs in here and there that kind of bug me. And I might add that his Chopin preludes are some of the worst ever recorded... :P It's like he thinks he's playing Bach when he's off by like 100 years!

Yes I am guilty as charged I listen to Chopin like a lot. Lol look at the file I attached. :-X The sad thing is that after 10 years of listening to that exact same recording, I still listen to it almost every day.

Surprised you like Barenboim, because his Chopin kind of sucks...? (But I do also like his Mendelssohn recordings).

Yes his chopin is terrible but I can see past that, unlike many people here seem to think.
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Offline outin

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #23 on: September 12, 2015, 08:13:02 PM »


Yes I am guilty as charged I listen to Chopin like a lot. Lol look at the file I attached. :-X The sad thing is that after 10 years of listening to that exact same recording, I still listen to it almost every day.


That's ok...I have obsessions too  ;D

But I find it really difficult to name favorite pianists (except for the obvious ones like abm or gilels) because I only consider each piece and performance at one time. Besides there are some pianists that clearly are great but don't play music that I like...

Offline pencilart3

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #24 on: September 12, 2015, 08:35:46 PM »
he really needs plastic surgery. He looks creepy..

Well that isn't his fault, it it?
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Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #25 on: September 12, 2015, 08:38:51 PM »
 ;D
So it seems we do both agree and disagree...

I He's one of the few pianists that can even make me feel compelled to listen to Bach.

Surprised you like Barenboim, because his Chopin kind of sucks...? (But I do also like his Mendelssohn recordings).



Yes, Andras Schiff really makes Bach pretty. So does Simone Dinnerstein, but she is SUCH A TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Listen to her Gigue from the Partita #1 and you'll know why  ;D Also, David Fray is amazing.

Also, listen to Baremboim's Rigoletto Paraphrase. It is so freakin inspiring in the parts his fingers can actually handle. ::)

Oh, and I think Murray Perahia and Glenn Gould don't have shaping. However, Murray Perahia's Beethoven Op. 2 #3 is AWESOME........

Offline kypiano

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #26 on: September 12, 2015, 09:27:03 PM »
Plastic surgery for Wei Luo would be nice, too... Give the Koreans some more money
She's Chinese, not Korean

Offline kypiano

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #27 on: September 12, 2015, 10:50:08 PM »
I do love Trifonov, though, but he really needs plastic surgery. He looks creepy..

If I ever get lucky enough to take a masterclass from him, I'll tell him you said that. That's how I'll win World War III.

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #28 on: September 13, 2015, 07:03:08 PM »
Replace the word "Other" with Emmanuel Ax.

Offline schumaniac

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #29 on: September 13, 2015, 09:50:06 PM »

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #30 on: September 13, 2015, 09:56:53 PM »
Wait- kypiano obeed me for once!

So, who voted for Ax?

Offline schumaniac

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #31 on: September 17, 2015, 03:07:17 AM »
Yes, Schiff is pretty good at Bach, but he puts random slurs in here and there that kind of bug me. And I might add that his Chopin preludes are some of the worst ever recorded... :P It's like he thinks he's playing Bach when he's off by like 100 years!

Yes I am guilty as charged I listen to Chopin like a lot. Lol look at the file I attached. :-X The sad thing is that after 10 years of listening to that exact same recording, I still listen to it almost every day.

Yes his chopin is terrible but I can see past that, unlike many people here seem to think.
His Chopin is merely played without conforming to "tradition." I wrote this long-ass comment about it:
(that's the beauty of the internet btw, you can act like you're a New York Times critic when really you're just a teenage music student w too much time on his hands)

:I've never heard Schiff play Chopin, so this is interesting. I think the criticism here comes mainly from the fact that Schiff's interpretation is certainly not the most 'conventional.' There are definitely differences in tempo, nuances, and particular phrases that are not 'standard.' But I think this is important, to study Chopin from a more "intellectual," musical perspective, and not necessarily from how pieces have been played traditionally; there are some things in the score, some things suggested by the composer that don't always match that. So I don't think this is bad, only studied independent of that "tradition." And there are also some places I find very good."

I'm also somewhat proud that I got 11 thumbs-up on that thing... but that's a once-in-a-who-knows-how-long event

Offline outin

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #32 on: September 17, 2015, 03:20:55 AM »
His Chopin is merely played without conforming to "tradition." I wrote this long-ass comment about it:
(that's the beauty of the internet btw, you can act like you're a New York Times critic when really you're just a teenage music student w too much time on his hands)

:I've never heard Schiff play Chopin, so this is interesting. I think the criticism here comes mainly from the fact that Schiff's interpretation is certainly not the most 'conventional.' There are definitely differences in tempo, nuances, and particular phrases that are not 'standard.' But I think this is important, to study Chopin from a more "intellectual," musical perspective, and not necessarily from how pieces have been played traditionally; there are some things in the score, some things suggested by the composer that don't always match that. So I don't think this is bad, only studied independent of that "tradition." And there are also some places I find very good."

I'm also somewhat proud that I got 11 thumbs-up on that thing... but that's a once-in-a-who-knows-how-long event

I do agree that it is perfectly fine to break "traditions". Which often are not really coming from the era of the creation of the works at all, but something that just started living it's own thing later. Sometimes a new fresh approach gets popular (like with Gould's Bach) and sometimes not, but they all are valuable still.

Although we might be able to live without the Sayers ones...


Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #33 on: September 17, 2015, 08:41:41 PM »
I do agree that it is perfectly fine to break "traditions".

Although we might be able to live without the Sayers ones...



YAAASSSSS. Traditions are for musicless people who don't know how to do anything except for what their teacher taught them.

Some of my favs: Grigory Sokolov; John O'Conor; Simone Dinnerstein; Mikhail Pletnev

Grigory Sokolov breaks traditions in Chopin; John O'Conor breaks tradition for the Waldstein; Dinnerstein breaks the tradition for Bach's Partita #1, Gigue ;D and Pletnev adds tons of notes to the Scarlatti SOnatas.

I love them.

Offline outin

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #34 on: September 18, 2015, 02:40:32 AM »
Pletnev adds tons of notes to the Scarlatti SOnatas.


It's ok to break tradition but IT'S NOT OK TO BREAK SCARLATTI!!





Kidding aside, I hate his Scarlatti, but if some people enjoy it, then let him do his thing...

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #35 on: September 18, 2015, 02:42:00 AM »
It's ok to break tradition but IT'S NOT OK TO BREAK SCARLATTI!!





Kidding aside, I hate his Scarlatti, but if some people enjoy it, then let him do his thing...
Outin is from now on wrong about everything

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #36 on: September 18, 2015, 02:43:40 AM »
JK. Do you like Yuja Wang and Clare Huangci? Or are you more of the Tipo/de Larrocha type?

Offline outin

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #37 on: September 18, 2015, 02:58:59 AM »
JK. Do you like Yuja Wang and Clare Huangci? Or are you more of the Tipo/de Larrocha type?

I'm more like Michelangeli/Weissenberg/Ciccolini/Schiff type...

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #38 on: September 18, 2015, 03:01:04 AM »
If I ever get lucky enough to take a masterclass from him, I'll tell him you said that. That's how I'll win World War III.
nah, ill win World War III
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Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #39 on: September 18, 2015, 07:51:33 PM »
I'm more like Michelangeli/Weissenberg/Ciccolini/Schiff type...

The only person I ever heard in your list playing Scarlatti was Michelangeli

Offline kypiano

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #40 on: September 18, 2015, 10:04:59 PM »
nah, ill win World War III

We're on the same side, remember? U've to be consinstent.

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #41 on: September 19, 2015, 02:53:02 AM »
We're on the same side, remember? U've to be consinstent.
no i have taken over north korea and got their nuclear supplies ;D
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Offline outin

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #42 on: September 19, 2015, 05:31:49 AM »
The only person I ever heard in your list playing Scarlatti was Michelangeli

I guessed that :)

So it's time to correct that, right?








Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #43 on: September 20, 2015, 06:07:08 PM »
These ones seem pretty overrated by me:

- Lugansky
- Pollini
- Rubinstein
- Argerich
- Katsaris
- Goldman
- Lang Lang
- Fray

Just my opninion.

polling and rubenstein arent overrated. they're actually good pianists
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Offline pencilart3

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #44 on: September 20, 2015, 08:50:04 PM »
Yes Maurizio Pollini is awesome. He's one of my favorites actually.
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Offline schumaniac

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #45 on: September 22, 2015, 11:43:47 PM »
Outin is from now on wrong about everything
Pletnev's Scarlatti were the first Scarlattis I listened to LOL

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #46 on: September 23, 2015, 12:05:40 AM »
Pletnev's Scarlatti were the first Scarlattis I listened to LOL

ikr his playing of K. 24 sounds so FREE, but everyone else sounds so TIGHT!

Offline outin

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #47 on: September 23, 2015, 04:17:04 AM »
ikr his playing of K. 24 sounds so FREE, but everyone else sounds so TIGHT!

That is probably true, but I believe there's enough freedom in Domenico's music as it is written, no need to add more ;)

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #48 on: September 23, 2015, 09:39:15 PM »
That is probably true, but I believe there's enough freedom in Domenico's music as it is written, no need to add more ;)

 But everyone else sounds SO HARD TO LISTEN TO!

Offline schumaniac

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Re: Most overrated pianists?
«Reply #49 on: September 23, 2015, 10:07:38 PM »
But everyone else sounds SO HARD TO LISTEN TO!
no, there's a lot of good Scarlatti out there on YouTube... here's an old one but Clara Haskil??