\"\"
Piano Forum logo

Humble writer needs help (Read 1416 times)

Offline earleaw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Humble writer needs help
« on: September 12, 2015, 10:28:35 PM »
Hello piano experts! I am writing a short fiction about a collegiate-level piano student.  I need help choosing a piece of music that could realistically be used for a senior recital. Ideally, the piece would have a signature area of difficulty, like huge dynamic shifts, or substantial rubato, or anything else you can think of. Preferably difficulty related to feel, i.e. intangibles. It would have to be something that could be detected from another room. I'm a musician myself (guitar) so don't be shy with big words or tricky concepts.

Here's the background. There is a scene where an upstairs neighbor overhears the student practicing this piece in her apartment. The upstairs neighbor is an older musician and is familiar with the piece. The neighbor confronts the student and insists that she's not getting the <<<insert signature difficulty here>>> correct. It's a pivotal moment in the story and I want to get it right.

Thanks in advance from a humble writer.

Offline kypiano

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #1 on: September 12, 2015, 10:42:22 PM »
Ooh lah lah!

Maybe Chopin's Fourth Ballade, Op. 52. That is a VERY opinionated piece. Some arrogant people think that it should be played metronomically, and think that their way iks the only way (the piano teacher I quit from, for example).

So yeah, if that's the case, then the "difficulty" the neighbor would criticize the student about would be like "Oh, you stupid little girl, you're speeding up.. and then you're slowing down.... then you're speeding up, then you're slowing down again... Chopin did not write that. See all the lines he put in? You have to follow them. NO SPEEDING UP OR SLOWING DOWN. ABSOLUTELY NO RUBATO" Or something like that.

That's my suggestion. But it would only work if the neighbor is an arrogant freak with no sense of music. She has to have A LOT of background in music, though, but she must be lacking in "musicality". Get what I'm saying? So if the neighbor doesn't meet that criteria, don't use this piece.

Offline earleaw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #2 on: September 12, 2015, 11:27:51 PM »
Thanks for the reply. The upstairs neighbor isn't an arrogant character, but he is an experienced and accomplished musician. The confrontation will have to be of the nurturing sort. The student is a very good player but, for lack of experience or musicality, she is missing a key performance element that she just isn't hearing but the upstairs neighbor is.

So yeah, I need a piece that would challenge a younger player because of it's nuance. I hope that makes sense.

Thanks again for the reply. Any other thoughts?

Offline chopinlover01

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2097
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #3 on: September 13, 2015, 03:24:17 AM »
Maybe Ravel's Jeux D'eau? It has numerous technical challenges, namely the last cadenza though. So that could be your scene.
Good luck!
Jazz Ambassador 8)

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #4 on: September 13, 2015, 04:05:29 AM »
Ravel's Ondine. Mysterious, large dynamic changes, and terribly difficult. It would be cool if the neighbor interrupted at like 3:52 when it's about to explode. I don't know how you would convey that though.

Cool story BTW, I want to read it when you're done. :)

You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline kypiano

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #5 on: September 13, 2015, 03:58:12 PM »
Ravel's Ondine. Mysterious, large dynamic changes, and terribly difficult. It would be cool if the neighbor interrupted at like 3:52 when it's about to explode. I don't know how you would convey that though.

Cool story BTW, I want to read it when you're done. :)



Emily's soulful and passionate rendition of Ravel's Ondine was the best ever. No one can even compare, especially Pogorelich. Today, what is left of her will be placed in the kitchen of the Temple of the Great Boddhisivatsa Emily.

Offline earleaw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #6 on: September 13, 2015, 04:13:55 PM »
Ravel's Ondine. Mysterious, large dynamic changes, and terribly difficult. It would be cool if the neighbor interrupted at like 3:52 when it's about to explode. I don't know how you would convey that though.

Cool story BTW, I want to read it when you're done. :)



This is amazing! The dynamics at 3:52 is exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks so much! I promise that I'll post a link to my story here when it's finished and edited. Thanks again.

Offline dcstudio

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2423
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #7 on: September 13, 2015, 05:07:31 PM »


ok an older musician listening to a senior piano major perform ...  I am going to go out on a limb and give you a very well-known piece for your character to be rehearsing.


The 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody by Franz Liszt--in the older musician's time... it was the barometer piece for how talented a pianist was... (this was true up through the early 90's -- after that there really was no "barometer piece.") now this piece is rather cliche... but it would make perfect sense that the older pianist would be familiar with certain things about this piece that maybe even the student's teacher at university, is not aware of.

there is a bunch of "circus fare" in this piece which, if not played correctly, makes this particular piece of music impossible.  At 7:33 or so there is a commonly caked spot where students then to really pound it out and run out of energy in their hands because they are holding on to too much tension...  if your older pianist interrupted there and showed your character how to overcome this... it would be believable.. I don't know it it will work for your story.. but it's believable...


Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #8 on: September 13, 2015, 05:23:53 PM »
Emily's soulful and passionate rendition of Ravel's Ondine was the best ever. No one can even compare, especially Pogorelich. Today, what is left of her will be placed in the kitchen of the Temple of the Great Boddhisivatsa Emily.

Hey, at least I'm not a soulless and passionless robot like you.

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #9 on: September 13, 2015, 09:36:40 PM »
The 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody by Franz Liszt--

You do like that one, don't you? ;D

This is amazing! The dynamics at 3:52 is exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks so much! I promise that I'll post a link to my story here when it's finished and edited. Thanks again.

Great! I have written some piano stories myself so when I read your description I was like "ONDINE!!" Haha, I really want to read it so make sure you don't forget to post the link. :D
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline dcstudio

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2423
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #10 on: September 13, 2015, 09:49:58 PM »
You do like that one, don't you? ;D


I come from the generation who played the piano because bugs bunny played that on a Saturday morning cartoon. lol.. for some of my friends cartoons where their only exposure to classical music... not so for me of course... but I still loved it when that came on.  In the middle of the cartoon bugs stops playing because the phone is ringing--so he picks it up and says "Fraaaanz Liszt? never heard of him!"  then he slams the phone down and goes back to playing the HR2.  I thought that was the coolest thing ever...lol

it was the barometer piece to measure the worthiness of a concert pianist... that's not BS if they could play that--then they were considered "proficient"     :) It had lost it's luster just a bit already but when the internet came along in the mid-90s and musicians were able to communicate so much more easily... that's when the HR2 stopped having such an exalted purpose.  Then it became so cliche that people kinda quit playing it.

that's why I suggested it...  your's was great, too :) lol.

plus you know how I am always talking about writing a book...lol. 

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #11 on: September 13, 2015, 09:54:10 PM »
Ah yes, the pinky extends...
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #12 on: September 13, 2015, 09:55:02 PM »
Ah yes, the pinky extends...

Is this a reference to the so-called Chinese middle finger?

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #13 on: September 13, 2015, 09:57:07 PM »
Is this a reference to the so-called Chinese middle finger?

Bugs Bunny, genius.
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #14 on: September 13, 2015, 09:57:48 PM »
Bugs Bunny, genius.
Oh, whew, I thought you were on Kyle's side

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #15 on: September 13, 2015, 10:00:24 PM »
Oh, whew, I thought you were on Kyle's side

I kind of like sitting on the fence, it makes it very entertaining.
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #16 on: September 13, 2015, 10:03:10 PM »
I kind of like sitting on the fence, it makes it very entertaining.
well, did you see Kyle's Karma Danger Powers run out? His racist statements got him kicked out or something.

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #17 on: September 13, 2015, 10:04:16 PM »
well, did you see Kyle's Karma Danger Powers run out? His racist statements got him kicked out or something.

You're quite the one to be talking about racism...
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #18 on: September 13, 2015, 10:04:58 PM »
OMG did you notice that the only people inactive in this topic are the OP and kyle?

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #19 on: September 13, 2015, 10:06:07 PM »
You're quite the one to be talking about racism...
Yeah, well, it's so annoying everyone thinks I'm Hispanic just because my last name is Angel.

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #20 on: September 13, 2015, 10:06:59 PM »
OMG, if you try to write W T F, PS changes it to "what"

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #21 on: September 13, 2015, 10:09:12 PM »
what what

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #22 on: September 13, 2015, 10:10:01 PM »
OMG, if you try to write W T F, PS changes it to "what"

Your language is more colorful than tempera paint.
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline schumaniac

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #23 on: September 14, 2015, 06:53:07 PM »
what what
what maaaaaaan

and what's this about kyle and racism... have I really missed out on that much stuff

who even is kyle and if it's "kypiano" I mean I thought he was pretty chill this whole time...

Offline schumaniac

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #24 on: September 14, 2015, 06:55:06 PM »
and OP is probably writing away...

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #25 on: September 14, 2015, 07:40:59 PM »
what maaaaaaan

and what's this about kyle and racism... have I really missed out on that much stuff

who even is kyle and if it's "kypiano" I mean I thought he was pretty chill this whole time...
He used to be in his past life (he was Franz Schubert), but he got jealous because I won the Grand Prix at the Van Beethoven Competition in Bombay and the Not-so-Grand Prix at the Van Cliburn Competition.

Offline schumaniac

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #26 on: September 14, 2015, 07:47:39 PM »
l

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #27 on: September 14, 2015, 07:56:21 PM »
I don't get it... are these "pianostreet" inside jokes?

is it even possible to be serious in school while not being cut off from the outside world?
and why are you texting in class...
I have no school today but you??
Actually, I finished school an hour ago. DON"T YOU SERIOUSLY KNOW WHAT TIMEZONES ARE

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #28 on: September 14, 2015, 09:04:14 PM »
I'm the only one active in this topic. Wow.

Offline earleaw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #29 on: September 15, 2015, 01:52:26 AM »

ok an older musician listening to a senior piano major perform ...  I am going to go out on a limb and give you a very well-known piece for your character to be rehearsing.


The 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody by Franz Liszt--in the older musician's time... it was the barometer piece for how talented a pianist was... (this was true up through the early 90's -- after that there really was no "barometer piece.") now this piece is rather cliche... but it would make perfect sense that the older pianist would be familiar with certain things about this piece that maybe even the student's teacher at university, is not aware of.

there is a bunch of "circus fare" in this piece which, if not played correctly, makes this particular piece of music impossible.  At 7:33 or so there is a commonly caked spot where students then to really pound it out and run out of energy in their hands because they are holding on to too much tension...  if your older pianist interrupted there and showed your character how to overcome this... it would be believable.. I don't know it it will work for your story.. but it's believable...



Another great idea! Thanks so much for the suggestion!

Offline earleaw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #30 on: September 15, 2015, 01:57:59 AM »
You guys are a riot. Be careful, you may end up in the story, haha.

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #31 on: September 15, 2015, 02:44:25 AM »
You guys are a riot. Be careful, you may end up in the story, haha.

The clouds covered the moon, blocking off the little remaining light. In desperation, *the character* dashed to the home of schumaniac, where pencilart was playing a mysterious prelude. He stumbled out the door and almost bumped into rubinsteinmad, who quickly punched him in the face.

"Oh," said rubinsteinmad, "I thought you were kypiano."

:D
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #32 on: September 15, 2015, 03:06:32 AM »
The clouds covered the moon, blocking off the little remaining light. In desperation, *the character* dashed to the home of schumaniac, where pencilart was playing a mysterious prelude. He stumbled out the door and almost bumped into rubinsteinmad, who quickly punched him in the face.

"Oh," said rubinsteinmad, "I thought you were kypiano."

:D

Haha

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1690
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #33 on: September 16, 2015, 12:40:41 AM »
what maaaaaaan

and what's this about kyle and racism... have I really missed out on that much stuff

who even is kyle and if it's "kypiano" I mean I thought he was pretty chill this whole time...

Whaaaaaaaaat maaaaaaaaaaan you care about kypiano more than me? Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

Offline kypiano

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #34 on: September 16, 2015, 02:38:13 AM »
what maaaaaaan

and what's this about kyle and racism... have I really missed out on that much stuff

who even is kyle and if it's "kypiano" I mean I thought he was pretty chill this whole time...
So just because my name is kyle, not ky, I'm not chill??????????? what happened to you

Offline earleaw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #35 on: September 16, 2015, 02:02:34 PM »
Ravel's Ondine. Mysterious, large dynamic changes, and terribly difficult. It would be cool if the neighbor interrupted at like 3:52 when it's about to explode. I don't know how you would convey that though.

Cool story BTW, I want to read it when you're done. :)



Do you happen to have sheet music for "Ondine?" I'd like to know the specific measure that has the moment of explosion. It might be easier than counting the measures from the YouTube video, haha.

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #36 on: September 16, 2015, 03:00:36 PM »
Do you happen to have sheet music for "Ondine?" I'd like to know the specific measure that has the moment of explosion. It might be easier than counting the measures from the YouTube video, haha.

http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/e/e0/IMSLP03178-Ravel-Gaspard.Durand.pdf
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810


Offline earleaw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #38 on: September 16, 2015, 03:28:43 PM »
Is there a particular performance of "Ondine" that is considered to be the best rendition.

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #39 on: September 16, 2015, 04:24:08 PM »
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline earleaw

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #40 on: November 02, 2015, 04:30:46 PM »
Hi guys. Firstly, I'd like to thank you all for your help a couple months ago. I finally have finished my short story. It's been through a couple rounds of edits and now I'm ready for some beta readers. If you would like to read my short story, please message me and I'll send you a link to it.

Thanks again for all of your help.

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Humble writer needs help
«Reply #41 on: November 02, 2015, 05:15:14 PM »
I want to read it! Please PM me the link!!! :D
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810