Musical Instincts

[rubinsteinmad]

How do people gain musical instincts/learned behaviors? (i.e . some people have a lot of rubato; some people are afraid to do anything besides metronomic; some people, like Lang Lang, have the metronome instinct but push themselves do things that are not in their instinct, which is a total failure)

Any thoughts?

P. S. Ill be more mature now, dog person.

[iansinclair]

Mostly, I think, by listening to or performing (in a group or with a very experienced conductor or for a very experienced teacher) a lot of music in a very humble frame of mind.  It also helps to have lived for a while...  with some composers, the latter doesn't matter so much (Bach, for instance.  Mozart) but with others (anything romantic) you need both the listening and performing experience -- and then something to really say through the music, preferably in sympathy with what the composer was trying to say.

[josh93248]

How do people gain musical instincts/learned behaviors? (i.e . some people have a lot of rubato; some people are afraid to do anything besides metronomic; some people, like Lang Lang, have the metronome instinct but push themselves do things that are not in their instinct, which is a total failure)

Any thoughts?

P. S. Ill be more mature now, dog person.

I hope you will be.

Now as to your question, I think experimentation is key, I remember doing all sorts of stupid ideas in my early days just to see if I could, playing with radical dynamics and rubato etc. I think it should be part of any pianist's development rather than just strictly playing everything. Try playing around with your pieces, actually start trying to see what works and what doesn't. It actually doesn't matter if you only like 1/10th and hate the rest of what you do, you will learn from it.

[outin]

I believe most of my musical instinct comes from singing. I play the way I would sing. So I am also partial to piano music that has a singing quality (as opposed to more percussive kind), although there's not necessarily a clear single melody line. I don't really know where my precise rhythmic instinct comes from, maybe from listening to so much "rhythm music"?

[adodd81802]

I think it's unconscious to an extent. An extension of who you are. It's why one person like one style of music and one person likes another. When it's within your comfort zone you practice it more and get better at those behaviours quicker. I love the romantic era I feel I can identify with it a lot, in turn I almost never use a metronome and rubato maybe too much sometimes but I doesn't feel out of my comfort to slow down or speed up in different areas.

You can learn the new behaviours and even emotions I think by practice if you have broad taste, you can start learning a set of behaviours that are appropriate with the piece you are playing. You could love Bach and you could love Chopin, are you likely to feel the same when playing a Bach piece as you would Chopin? For a lot of pieces Unlikely.

I think there is also layering of behaviours in that as you learn more difficult pieces you learn new feelings and emotions with them. There's only so much emotion you can put into "Twinkle Twinkle" if we are being honest, but there are still feelings there that can be applied to the piece and as you develop the feelings you learn what is appropriate for a piece.

Lastly I think knowledge of a piece sets the behaviour required. Understanding what the composer was potentially thinking, how they developed the piece, their likely moods, etc you start to understand where the emotion is focused.

Could be wrong here. Again as a romantic-era pianist I could tend to pour a little too much emotion into a piece than needed.

[dcstudio]

there are many kinds of musical instincts--there is the most basic--rhythmic instinct which some folks just seem to be born with and others must struggle to master.  There is also a harmonic instinct which allows one to instinctively harmonize a melody to "sound good."  Now those who have studied tonal harmony know there are also many formulaic ways to write a chord progression to support your melody... people with a natural instinct for identifying chords and their functions can learn to use more formulaic methods--but then sometimes they will forget how to "do it by ear." This is the basis for the argument that learning too much theory will stifle your creative instincts...and in some cases it does

there is also that musical instinct which every accompanist MUST have fully developed... the gut feeling that tells you that the person you are playing for is about to go south.   Sometimes if you step in and give them a bit of their melody you can save them from disaster.

there is the musical instinct that tells you that the band your playing in sucks...lol   you would think this one would be obvious...but it's not.  Some people only listen to themselves when they play...that's all their ears will process.

how do you develop these?   you throw yourself to the wolves.   The first couple of times you truly trounce as a professional it's mighty painful...but after that you realize that world is not going to end... you won't have to face that firing squad after all... and you accept that sometimes you will not play perfectly... and you deal with it like an adult.

let me say that again... sometimes as a professional... you will cake.  When this happens, if you are blessed with the most important instinct of them all---the instinct that says--no matter what just keep paying--then you won't face a sleepless night reliving every missed beat.

then there are the musical instincts that just come with time...  I have been performing professionally with my husband for more than 20 years...  I instinctively know what he's going to play before he plays it... we end together every time without any visual clue... because I can tell from what he's playing that he's ending the tune, or his solo, or whatever.   It's the closest thing to ESP for real that I have ever experienced.   We can carry on whole conversations--or even argue...without speaking a word onstage.   

there are many more... but this should give you some idea 

[rubinsteinmad]

I think it's unconscious to an extent. An extension of who you are. It's why one person like one style of music and one person likes another. When it's within your comfort zone you practice it more and get better at those behaviours quicker. I love the romantic era I feel I can identify with it a lot, in turn I almost never use a metronome and rubato maybe too much sometimes but I doesn't feel out of my comfort to slow down or speed up in different areas.

You can learn the new behaviours and even emotions I think by practice if you have broad taste, you can start learning a set of behaviours that are appropriate with the piece you are playing. You could love Bach and you could love Chopin, are you likely to feel the same when playing a Bach piece as you would Chopin? For a lot of pieces Unlikely.

I think there is also layering of behaviours in that as you learn more difficult pieces you learn new feelings and emotions with them. There's only so much emotion you can put into "Twinkle Twinkle" if we are being honest, but there are still feelings there that can be applied to the piece and as you develop the feelings you learn what is appropriate for a piece.

Lastly I think knowledge of a piece sets the behaviour required. Understanding what the composer was potentially thinking, how they developed the piece, their likely moods, etc you start to understand where the emotion is focused.

Could be wrong here. Again as a romantic-era pianist I could tend to pour a little too much emotion into a piece than needed.

OMG YOU ARE SO BLESSSED There is NO such thing as too  much emotion. Only some  Juillard outcasts and their followers think that there is such thing as "too much emotion". Well, one of my most inspiring pianists is Dinnerstein. She lives up to Juillard's name. She plays with A LOT of emotion. However, there are some Juillard outcasts who believe everything must be played their way, or without emotion. I hate those people.

[kevonthegreatpianist]

I think you have to continuously play in a certain style. For example, Richter plays a lot of things too fast (check out his Chopin 10/4 out). Lang Lang over exaggerates basically everything.

Like adodd said, you might feel different emotions. you wouldn't play Chopin like Bach or Mozart (well, you can) and you wouldn't play a Bach song like Bartok. It's hard to put emotion in an early song but even an inexperienced pianist could make a song with new depths in it.

[rubinsteinmad]

I think you have to continuously play in a certain style. For example, Richter plays a lot of things too fast (check out his Chopin 10/4 out). Lang Lang over exaggerates basically everything.

Like adodd said, you might feel different emotions. you wouldn't play Chopin like Bach or Mozart (well, you can) and you wouldn't play a Bach song like Bartok. It's hard to put emotion in an early song but even an inexperienced pianist could make a song with new depths in it.

Well that b!tch teacher I rant about plays Chopin with the same shaping as Bach (I. e. none), but with the touch usually reserved for Bartok

[dcstudio]

Well that b!tch teacher I rant about

what made your teacher such a b!tch?  just curious.

[rubinsteinmad]

what made your teacher such a b!tch?  just curious.

She's really arrogant and plays HORRIBLE. Also, I think that she is not a trustworthy person. She lies WAY too much. what, she even claimed she was DATING Emmanuel Ax! (Just so you know, she's freaking ugly.)

[kevonthegreatpianist]

She's really arrogant and plays HORRIBLE. Also, I think that she is not a trustworthy person. She lies WAY too much. what, she even claimed she was DATING Emmanuel Ax! (Just so you know, she's freaking ugly.)

then get a new teacher

[rubinsteinmad]

then get a new teacher

I did, dude. I'm still recovering. Still recovering

[dcstudio]

She's really arrogant and plays HORRIBLE. Also, I think that she is not a trustworthy person. She lies WAY too much. what, she even claimed she was DATING Emmanuel Ax! (Just so you know, she's freaking ugly.)

Fair enough...  nothing worse than an arrogant teacher who cannot play themselves what they are belittling you for not being able to play

this lady has hurt you pretty badly...  don't let her steal the joy you have when you play...

don't EVER let ANYONE steal the joy you have when you play your piano.  You are entitled to it and you have earned it.

[outin]

She's really arrogant and plays HORRIBLE. Also, I think that she is not a trustworthy person. She lies WAY too much. what, she even claimed she was DATING Emmanuel Ax! (Just so you know, she's freaking ugly.)

When you get older you might be surprised that ugly people do get dates too 
And Emmanuel isn't exactly the super model type either (not saying that he doesn't have pleasant looks).

[kevonthegreatpianist]

(Just so you know, she's freaking ugly.)

just because you're ugly doesn't mean you have to be single (although that's kinda how life works)

[rubinsteinmad]

just because you're ugly doesn't mean you have to be single (although that's kinda how life works)

but still, that's EMMARNUEL AX she's insultin

[louispodesta]

I believe most of my musical instinct comes from singing. I play the way I would sing. So I am also partial to piano music that has a singing quality (as opposed to more percussive kind), although there's not necessarily a clear single melody line. I don't really know where my precise rhythmic instinct comes from, maybe from listening to so much "rhythm music"?

Once again, I proffer my highest compliment, in that it should be on the front page of the New York Times.  On point, "outin" identifies the song element of music as the basis of keyboard music interpretation.

As a former young choir boy, I had a great voice (which I do not have now).  Therefore, I phrase differently than the average pianist.

Accordingly, I once again list my link to my video, which is an introductory step to my upcoming news story which encompasses all of the elements of song and rhythm referenced in this particular post:

Thanks.

P.S.  Now, it is time for the new "nyiregyhazi" (albeit female) to make her post.

[louispodesta]

My apologies for my mistake:  I meant to say: "nyiregyhzi style troller."
 

[dcstudio]

just because you're ugly doesn't mean you have to be single (although that's kinda how life works)

wow...  I worry about you sometimes Kevonthegreat--you are far to young to be this pessimistic 

[rubinsteinmad]

wow...  I worry about you sometimes Kevonthegreat--you are far to young to be this pessimistic 

lol

[swagmaster420x]

Pessimism is taking the rose colored lens off.