What is the tempo of this song?

[jennd]

It's 6/8. The sheet music doesn't say the tempo.

[dogperson]

Approx 148 bpm.  So that you can test this, I counted 1,2,3,4,5,6, along with the first measures and then adjusted the speed of the metronome until the metronome matched the music.

[yadeehoo]

It's around 84 BPM. Its in 6/4, you count the 4, not the 6.

Beautiful song, btw

[dogperson]

It's around 84 BPM. Its in 6/4, you count the 4, not the 6.

Beautiful song, btw

Huh?  All scores are in 6/8  -- the eighth note gets one beat.  There are 6 beats in the measure
https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/Cristofori-s-Dream-digital-sheet-music/19482610?d=sem_SFD&popup=false&mkwid=sytKwiSyt|pcrid|52038237502&kw=&gclid=Cj0KEQjw44exBRCu8vfS_bPEtNoBEiQACrt00_6YvC-qPEHlfmSg0cVifsrDQkiQ7DaRCBZ9sOn0Kf4aAjdE8P8HAQ

https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0046944&gclid=Cj0KEQjw44exBRCu8vfS_bPEtNoBEiQACrt002M7sO9o5sLvBMbl8-CcekqUsgOUIcpF-ryWpOqpyA8aArZy8P8HAQ

[yadeehoo]

Huh?  All scores are in 6/8  -- the eighth note gets one beat.  There are 6 beats in the measure
https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/Cristofori-s-Dream-digital-sheet-music/19482610?d=sem_SFD&popup=false&mkwid=sytKwiSyt|pcrid|52038237502&kw=&gclid=Cj0KEQjw44exBRCu8vfS_bPEtNoBEiQACrt00_6YvC-qPEHlfmSg0cVifsrDQkiQ7DaRCBZ9sOn0Kf4aAjdE8P8HAQ

https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0046944&gclid=Cj0KEQjw44exBRCu8vfS_bPEtNoBEiQACrt002M7sO9o5sLvBMbl8-CcekqUsgOUIcpF-ryWpOqpyA8aArZy8P8HAQ

It's 84 bpm Dog. Stop commenting on posts like you know stuff, it's confusing people. Go work on your craft and come back when you learned something.

[dogperson]

It's 84 bpm Dog. Stop commenting on posts like you know stuff, it's confusing people. Go work on your craft and come back when you learned something.

Go back to your etudes.  It is in 6/8 time so it cannot be 84.    How can you comment on the speed when you think it is 6/4?  Beats me.

[dcstudio]

It's around 84 BPM. Its in 6/4, you count the 4, not the 6.

Beautiful song, btw

I am confused..  what exactly are you trying to say...  you count the 4--you mean the quarter note gets the beat?   this is in 6/8 --so the dotted quarter (or  eighth note triplet) would get the tempo marking---sounds like the dotted quarter = about 80 bpm--but I am just going by my ear.  

what do you mean you don't count the 6?  in 6/4 time there would be six quarter notes in each measure---so you would count the 6 not the 4...  

not sure what your saying...  I have been teaching piano for 20 years...and you lost me.  This stuff can be very confusing to new pianists...  it's sounds like maybe you aren't clear on this either...  it's ok..  lots of people have trouble with this.

[dcstudio]

if it's in 6/4 that means the dotted half--or quarter note triplet would get the tempo marking.  I didn't look at the score -- but I was told it does go into 6/4--it's the same concept--the dotted half would then be at about 80-84 bpm.

[quantum]

Typical usage of 6/8 is classified as compound duple time: two beats per measure, each beat being subdivided into 3.  Of course there are exceptions, but this piece follows the common usage.  You count 6/8 in 2 and not in 6.  A dotted quarter gets one beat, two dotted quarters fit in one measure.  The eighth note is the value of the subdivision, not the beat.  

Metronome markings for compound time can be specified for the main beat or the subdivision, depending on practicality.  For really slow music it may be easier to follow a faster metronome tick to the subdivision as opposed to the beat.  

My estimate:
dotted quarter = 56
eighth (subdivision) = 170


An alternate way of notating this would be in 2/4 with a quarter note beat and triplet eighth subdivision: simple duple time.  

[yadeehoo]

The whole song seems to be in triplets, Still you count the bottom line to get the beat.

It's the same as playing 3 over 2. So I like to think this song in 6/4 (easier to count)

Only the 1st and 4th note fall on the beat. 2nd, 3rd and 5th, 6th are off beat

[yadeehoo]

I made a video, might be easier to understand this way

[yadeehoo]

[dcstudio]

There are 6 beats to this song and you have you metronome set on 4/4--- this song is in 6/8--you are playing in 6/8 over a 4/4 clicktrack they don't line up ... the song does not have this... the pulse is clearly on the first note of each triplet.  Set your metronome correctly and you will understand.

you can't count a song with a triplet time signature to a duple division click track they are not the same...  unless there is 3 against 2--and there isn't in this song.  If you put that metronome on half speed and play a triplet against each click it will work.  There are 2 sets of triplets in each measure not 3  quarter notes which is what you are saying...even though you are playing 4 beats under a song that you have said has 6 beats... but you are playing the triplets over the first two clicks--so you are not even playing it the way you are describing.

like I said many students have trouble with this.

the top note of the time signature tells you how many beats there are in a measure--the bottom note tells you what KIND of note gets that beat.

there are 6 beats--two sets of triplet 8th notes... 6 8th notes--hence 6/8 time

you are not understanding time signatures and maybe you should refrain from giving advice about this for the time being.  

[dcstudio]

what you are saying with your click track is the bass clef is in 4/4 and the treble is in 6/8--is that why you think this is the way to count this?   I am just trying to understand how you got this backwards...

you are playing it correctly--I just wondered how you came up with setting the metronome on 4/4--even to count 6/4--like you "liked to think"-- in 6/4 the click will sound identical to 6/8--it will still tap out two sets of triplets. 

as a teacher I am just trying to understand your logic.

[yadeehoo]

what you are saying with your click track is the bass clef is in 4/4 and the treble is in 6/8--is that why you think this is the way to count this?   I am just trying to understand how you got this backwards...

you are playing it correctly--I just wondered how you came up with setting the metronome on 4/4--even to count 6/4--like you "liked to think"-- in 6/4 the click will sound identical to 6/8--it will still tap out two sets of triplets. 

as a teacher I am just trying to understand your logic.

Actually the metronome is on 3/4 at 84 BPM. Was hard to predict before I looked at the sheets and tried to play it.

[dcstudio]

I stand corrected --- you are playing this as 3 beats---there are really only 2--2 sets of triplets that is what 6/8 times usually means--and what it means in this song.  it's not 1 and 2 and 3 and-- it is 1-2-3 4-5-6--with the accent falling on the first and fourth 8th notes.  Quantums explanation is on the money.  count it as 1-la-lee 2-la-lee--that's 6/8

set your metronome on 2/4 and play a triplet against each click

it will work perfectly.  

I don't understand what you mean by you count the bottom line to get the beat?  do you mean you count the bass clef?  the bottom of the time signature... what are you saying? the triplet division is pretty clear in the score...  it's two sets of triplets all the way.  Why did you want to divide those into straight 8th notes and count it that way? it's not the same thing.

I am just curious... we all get stuff wrong..  someone messaged me about your vid--I should have listened to it before getting all huffy... sorry about that.    I just have seen a lot of people defend misunderstood musical concepts here..  

your click track does not represent 6/8 but 3/4--which is counted 1 and 2 and 3 and.  they are different time signatures.  6/8 is like 2/4 with a triplet subdivision..  3/4 doesn't work to illustrate this as you are playing two 8th note triplets not 3 sets of beamed 8th notes.

[yadeehoo]

I stand corrected --- you are playing this as 3 beats---there are really only 2--2 sets of triplets that is what 6/8 times usually means--and what it means in this song.  it's not 1 and 2 and 3 and-- it is 1-2-3 4-5-6--with the accent falling on the first and fourth 8th notes.  Quantums explanation is on the money.  count it as 1-la-lee 2-la-lee--that's 6/8

set your metronome on 2/4 and play a triplet against each click

it will work perfectly.  

I don't understand what you mean by you count the bottom line to get the beat?  do you mean you count the bass clef?  the bottom of the time signature... what are you saying? the triplet division is pretty clear in the score...  it's two sets of triplets all the way.  Why did you want to divide those into straight 8th notes and count it that way? it's not the same thing.

I am just curious... we all get stuff wrong..  someone messaged me about your vid--I should have listened to it before getting all huffy... sorry about that.    I just have seen a lot of people defend misunderstood musical concepts here..  

your click track does not represent 6/8 but 3/4--which is counted 1 and 2 and 3 and.  they are different time signatures.  6/8 is like 2/4 with a triplet subdivision..  3/4 doesn't work to illustrate this...

In theory, you're right, I just find it more natural to play it on a 3/4 count

[dcstudio]

it isn't theory its fact. 

whether or not you prefer it as 3/4 it's in 6/8 and they are not the same and do not illustrate the same rhythms...  but think of it however you like...  just know that the rest of the musical world considers 6/8 to be 1-la-lee 2-la-lee--and if you put the music in front of them that's how they will play it.   If you try to explain it in 3/4 you are explaining the wrong rhythm and anyone who has any knowledge of music theory whatsoever will immediately know that you don't understand this correctly.   

but like I said... think of it however you want.

[yadeehoo]

it isn't theory its fact. 

whether or not you prefer it as 3/4 it's in 6/8 and they are not the same and do not illustrate the same rhythms...  but think of it however you like...  just know that the rest of the musical world considers 6/8 to be 1-la-lee 2-la-lee--and if you put the music in front of them that's how they will play it.   If you try to explain it in 3/4 you are explaining the wrong rhythm and anyone who has any knowledge of music theory whatsoever will immediately know that you don't understand this correctly.   

but like I said... think of it however you want.

So, you think the tempo should be at 168? The click would sound stressful for a calm song like that, no?

[dcstudio]

we stopped talking about tempo a while ago... the tempo marking would be  the dotted quarter at 56 bpm--so set your metronome on 56 bpm  on 2/4 time and play a triplet against each click.  It will sound the same except for his personal tempo variations and phrasing. metronomes are meant to illustrate stressed beats...as well as keeping steady time-- that's why we use them

this is about your understanding of 6/8 time... which is incorrect.. if you are serious about the piano then that should be more important to you then defending your answer.

Quantums time est. was almost exact-- the dotted quarter is about 56 bpm which would mean each 8th note is at 168 bpm.

that would be the tempo marking because the pulse of this tune has two stressed beats per measure--at the downbeat of each triplet.  1-la-lee 2-la-lee is not the same as 1 and 2 and 3 and

this is not a debate...  it's not about agreeing about what it should be... it's about how fast this tune is on the vid...and the time signature and rhythm... that's an exact thing.  A big reason to learn theory is so that you can effectively communicate your musical ideas to another musician... in order for this to happen.. everyone has to be on the same page--definitions must be constant.

[adodd81802]

I actually don't even think I've ever seen a 6/4 piece.

DC has explained clearly and correctly, with definitely more theory-knowledge than I have, but in case this point needs more foundation - it's definitely 6/8.

In answer to the original question, as you originally posted a youtube video to the piece, you could consider (if you like that speed) using your metronome to match the tempo to the piece as you hear it and go from there.

I am assuming you have a metronome, otherwise asking for the tempo would be a little pointless

[dogperson]

I actually don't even think I've ever seen a 6/4 piece.

DC has explained clearly and correctly, with definitely more theory-knowledge than I have, but in case this point needs more foundation - it's definitely 6/8.

In answer to the original question, as you originally posted a youtube video to the piece, you could consider (if you like that speed) using your metronome to match the tempo to the piece as you hear it and go from there.

I am assuming you have a metronome, otherwise asking for the tempo would be a little pointless

Hi
Based on the youtube video, I matched the click of the metronome to the eighth note beats and came up with 148-- based on my ears.

[dcstudio]

Hi
Based on the youtube video, I matched the click of the metronome to the eighth note beats and came up with 148-- based on my ears.

that makes the dotted quarter = 49 bpm or so...which is a mighty calm and stress free mm setting if I do say so myself--not to imply that 148 bpm is that blisteringly stressful of a setting.

thanks adodd  you too dog. Maybe between the three of us we have given enough information to help anyone with confusion about the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 to understand these two time signatures.

Yadehoo-- it's not like this stuff is open for interpretation... there are aspects of form and analysis type stuff that those crazy pompous music theorists like to debate about.   Bach didn't write the T & F in D min is a big one... that kind of thing can also be called a "music theory"--how to count 6/8 time as it applies to this tune is... what it is...no theories.

a Waltz is 3/4
a Tarantella is 6/8

not the same dance, not the same rhythm

triplet 8th notes and straight 8th notes do not have the same value-- that's why we can have 3 against 2

[yadeehoo]

that makes the dotted quarter = 49 bpm or so...which is a mighty calm and stress free mm setting if I do say so myself--not to imply that 148 bpm is that blisteringly stressful of a setting.

thanks adodd   you too dog. Maybe between the three of us we have given enough information to help anyone with confusion about the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 to understand these two time signatures.

Yadehoo-- it's not like this stuff is open for interpretation... there are aspects of form and analysis type stuff that those crazy pompous music theorists like to debate about.   Bach didn't write the T & F in D min is a big one... that kind of thing can also be called a "music theory"--how to count 6/8 time as it applies to this tune is... what it is...no theories.

a Waltz is 3/4
a Tarantella is 6/8

not the same dance, not the same rhythm

triplet 8th notes and straight 8th notes do not have the same value-- that's why we can have 3 against 2

In theory,  you're all right. But have you tried practicing it with the metronome. 54 BPM just doesn't work with a metrone, and 148 is right, but so stressful to have a speedy metronome on a piece this calm.

I'm wrong all the way on my demo, but it's just a way to interpret theory into practice as to have a pleasant time practicing. But you guys are 100%. 148 BPM with the bell every 6 clikcs.

Plus it's between us since the OP didn't come back

[dcstudio]

you do not correctly put theory into practice by playing 3/4 when it's in 6/8 however pleasant it may be for you and you were trying to tell others that your way was the right way.


With all due respect please don't use "your way" to explain things on a student forum... it is confusing to others and it is incorrect.   You are welcome to define things however you choose...but your way is understood only by you.  The language of theory is understood by all who choose to study it--it has been developed over 1000 years of notated music and treatise from the Chants of Pope Gregory and the First Council of Trent to the rules of common practice as they are taught today.... and to be rude to other members who were only trying to explain this correctly really isn't cool.  

this forum is dedicated to students learning the language of music as it has been handed down over a millennia... not as you personally define it.  It is hard enough to learn this stuff... please don't make it more confusing than it already is.

In theory,  you're all right. But have you tried practicing it with the metronome. 54 BPM just doesn't work with a metrone, and 148 is right, but so stressful to have a speedy metronome on a piece this calm.

I'm wrong all the way on my demo, but it's just a way to interpret theory into practice as to have a pleasant time practicing. But you guys are 100%. 148 BPM with the bell every 6 clikcs.

Plus it's between us since the OP didn't come back

there you go with the "in theory" stuff again... like I said... it's not theory it's fact. How you feel about it bears no relevance in this instance.

[timothy42b]

54 BPM just doesn't work with a metrone, and 148 is right, but so stressful to have a speedy metronome on a piece this calm.

Sure it does.

And with a little work, you can set the metronome to 27 and keep the same speed, but you're getting one click per measure.

[yadeehoo]

I'm very sorry then, I realize I have a way to make things work that is really specific to me.

Next time, I'll leave the theory to you guys, I'll just play the song

[dcstudio]

I'm very sorry then, I realize I have a way to make things work that is really specific to me.

Next time, I'll leave the theory to you guys, I'll just play the song

that would be great.    and your apology is accepted.  People will be very helpful here if you are honest about what you know and where you are musically.  There are some members here who are highly trained and have decades of experience, and they have explained these same concepts to students 100s of times...   

I appreciate your apology more than you know, thank you.   

Be nice to others we are all trying for the same thing here.

[yadeehoo]

that would be great.    and your apology is accepted.  People will be very helpful here if you are honest about what you know and where you are musically.  There are some members here who are highly trained and have decades of experience, and they have explained these same concepts to students 100s of times...   

I appreciate your apology more than you know, thank you.   

Be nice to others we are all trying for the same thing here.

Okay