How do you memorize music?

[movilogo]

Do you memorize piece of music like C D A C D F A etc.

or

like do re mi sol fa do mi re

or

something else?

[pencilart3]

A quick search should reveal to you a wealth of information. Here are just a few of the topics...

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=34747.0

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=32636.0

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=7030.0

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=49744.0

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=5835.0

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=1652.0

[adodd81802]

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[adodd81802]

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[outin]

You do obviously read the notes as letters and fundamentally that's what you subconsciously recall when you memorize a piece.

Do I? While playing I seem to mostly associate the notes on the staff directly as keys or key combinations on the piano instead of their names. So I also don't memorize any groups of letters, rather figures and positions on the keyboard that I associate with the sound image.

[movilogo]

I did read some (not all) of those threads but didn't get a definitive answer (may be there is no such thing).

Let me re-phrase the question.

Why do we need to memorize at all? Ideally one should be looking straight at sheet music and play without looking at keyboard (same when you type something on your computer keyboard).


However, I feel I need to memorize little bit because, being a beginner, I can't yet play without looking at keyboard.

In my definition of memorizing, I mean being able to recall it verbally (so that you can tell it someone over phone and he should be able to play it).

To do so, one should be able to translate notes to some prounceable words. That's why I said about CDE/DoReMi in my original post.

A lot of beginners fly in, ask the same questions, disappear and that's it, check the forum search for some good answers also.

That happens in all online forums

[outin]

In my definition of memorizing, I mean being able to recall it verbally (so that you can tell it someone over phone and he should be able to play it).

That is not the most common definition of memorizing, it usually refers to being able to play the piece as written, but without the score.

[adodd81802]

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[movilogo]

People use memorization differently.

Some people prefer it visual way, while others go via auditory/verbal route.

I tried to recall series of staff notations from memory and finding it very difficult to do so  

[adodd81802]

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[stevensk]

Do you memorize piece of music like C D A C D F A etc.
 

When I hear it, I remember it.

[outin]

People use memorization differently.

Some people prefer it visual way, while others go via auditory/verbal route.

Actually most people use all these in different proportions depending on their learned habits and natural aptitudes and also the material.

In certain spots I use the note names to reinforce my memory recall, as "That's a bl---dy A you stupid idiot!" but it's not a way to memorize the whole piece.

[visitor]

memorization skill is vital to learn/establish and improve on.  One of the top professors at my old school that attracted the most talented kids to study there would not even hear you on the very first piano lesson of a piece if the work was not note and basic score movement learned and fully solidly memorized, if it wasn't learned to memory the lesson would be cancelled/abruptly end and the student sent back to the library and practice room to learn the piece.

that type of fast/quick and solid memory relies on different types of learnning. motor/movement, intellectual knowledge of the form and harmonic framework of the piece, melodies (ie can you sing it, as the ear should direct the playing and you cannot produce the sound you want if you don't know in your head what it should/needs to sound like).
you want to have a basic visualization of the score as well but the aural, theory, and repetition are super important and likely depending on the student takes many many hours of prep prior to the lesson in order to fully establish.

my recc is to start w knowing what the pieces sounds like, be able to hum or sing the melody without score first, then study score both at and away from piano, analyze it , know key places where modulations and changes occur, and of course practice practice practice different sections, out of order, then piece it all back together.

[movilogo]

Why memorizing is necessary at expert level? Can an expert not play any note with sufficient speed by simply looking at sheet music notation?

[pencilart3]

You need to memorize it for almost any concert or competition. Here is what will happen if you don't.

[outin]

Why memorizing is necessary at expert level? Can an expert not play any note with sufficient speed by simply looking at sheet music notation?

It is not always necessary at expert level unless one is expected to perform from memory. But to reach "expert level" for me means to study music for at least a couple of decades with good instruction. And even some great pianists seem to think memorizing enhances their performance.

Some people also memorize because they have problems with reading for different reasons...there are even blind pianists...

[briansaddleback]

Do you memorize piece of music like C D A C D F A etc.

or

like do re mi sol fa do mi re

or

something else?

I usually memorize not by the technical name of the note on page and I don't see the note name of the key on the piano.

All I see (in a quick knee reflex) is the note on page and it directly reflects into the visual/feel of the key that note directs my brain/finger to.


Not saying that is good or bad. Just how I somehow evolved to learning piano.




I know real conceptual /theoretical memorization is vital or considered to be to one's or a musician's advantage, but I have tried and tried, but can never learn anything by just staring at a musical score. It doesn't get me anywhere.
And I can never memorize a piece by saying to myself or thinking "next is a dim A chord, now comes a modulation, next is a G flat major interval... blah blah blah" I think that sort of thought would take too much thought process and time to compile (computer programming term) to actually help me to quickly and reflexively recover on a piano during performance if my muscle memory fails me.

So what all I try to do is just try to 'memorize' the FEEL of the keys during all the sections of the piece, and the VISUAL of the fingers at which keys (in the past I thought it was taboo to look at one's hands while playing piano; I still have a habit not to look, but more so I have tried observing my hands now)are being played so if my muscle memory shuts down I can go by the visual of where my fingers are supposed to be....but in actual real-time performance , it still takes too much time to 'compile' that info so I still stall or pause while I gather my thoughts.

Usually for me, thusly, I have to MAINLY depend on my muscle memory to the point of overpracticing so that THAT in ITSELF will be the quickest way to recover on the piano performance in the case ITSELF the muscle memory fails. Sounds contradictory  but I hope you understand what I mean and my plight.

this is such a case for me in memory.



(I can never imagine how those professional concert pianists can just dive in at any point of the piece <even at a middle of a complex and fast cadenza> and play from there.  Amazing).

[mjames]

^--same

I dont even have think about the keys or notes when I'm reading, when I look at the music my hands instinctively go to the designated location.

[xdjuicebox]

Memorization, in my opinion, is a very personal thing, but for me it's a combination of a few different things. If I know what the piece sounds like, that's the first bit of memory for me.

I practice scales, arpeggios and chord progressions every day during improvisation practice and things of that nature, so I'll look through a piece of music, immediately recognize the chord, remember the general "layout" of the part (inversions, voicings, etc), and that's pretty much it.

If I repeatedly play with the score in front of me, photographic memory starts to take over.

Here's an example, Beethoven Op. 27 Mov. 3:
Left hand arpeggiates C# and G# (the chord is C# minor) but plays an octave at the top
Do overlapping arpeggios of C#minor (I know how it lines up because I know how it sounds;rhythm wise it makes perfect sense I don't know how to describe this with words)
Next bar: Do the same thing with G#7/B#. The left hand drops its bass by a half step.
Do the same thing with C#7/Bnatural. Start the right hand on C#, and drop the bass another half step.
Then suddenly there are two different chords in one measure. The left just bounces between two A's an octave apart. The first run is F#minor, starting on C#. The second one is C#dim, starting on C#
The next bar resolves on G#7

I know that was a lot of words, but that takes up very little space in my brain and it works for me

[briansaddleback]

Memorization, in my opinion, is a very personal thing, but for me it's a combination of a few different things. If I know what the piece sounds like, that's the first bit of memory for me.

I practice scales, arpeggios and chord progressions every day during improvisation practice and things of that nature, so I'll look through a piece of music, immediately recognize the chord, remember the general "layout" of the part (inversions, voicings, etc), and that's pretty much it.

If I repeatedly play with the score in front of me, photographic memory starts to take over.

Here's an example, Beethoven Op. 27 Mov. 3:
Left hand arpeggiates C# and G# (the chord is C# minor) but plays an octave at the top
Do overlapping arpeggios of C#minor (I know how it lines up because I know how it sounds;rhythm wise it makes perfect sense I don't know how to describe this with words)
Next bar: Do the same thing with G#7/B#. The left hand drops its bass by a half step.
Do the same thing with C#7/Bnatural. Start the right hand on C#, and drop the bass another half step.
Then suddenly there are two different chords in one measure. The left just bounces between two A's an octave apart. The first run is F#minor, starting on C#. The second one is C#dim, starting on C#
The next bar resolves on G#7

I know that was a lot of words, but that takes up very little space in my brain and it works for me

Cool. So how do you get to this point of having a good theoretical memorization/head knowledge memorization instead of just relying on muscle memory? Do you just naturally have photographic memory or did you work on it and how did you work on it?

I have a problem ( I guess with most muscle-memory-only users) is that my hands could know where to go (if playing in good sequence and focused to not have any lapses) but if you asked me, I wouldnt know what to tell you if what I played was a Db arpeggio or this or that. I dont remember how it looks if I were imagining playing it in my mind.

for instance, I have played Clair de lune successfully for years, it is slow and has a lot of arpeggios and very simple thirds figurations during ending and opening. However, if you asked me to tell you what keys they were and/or to visualize where my fingers are on the piano at any given moment in my head, I can't tell you.
 

[iamazombie911]

I just keep practicing the piece without bothering to think about memorizing it, and around the time when I am reasonably happy with my progress, it is already memorized, without any extra work.

[xdjuicebox]

Cool. So how do you get to this point of having a good theoretical memorization/head knowledge memorization instead of just relying on muscle memory? Do you just naturally have photographic memory or did you work on it and how did you work on it?

I have a problem ( I guess with most muscle-memory-only users) is that my hands could know where to go (if playing in good sequence and focused to not have any lapses) but if you asked me, I wouldnt know what to tell you if what I played was a Db arpeggio or this or that. I dont remember how it looks if I were imagining playing it in my mind.

for instance, I have played Clair de lune successfully for years, it is slow and has a lot of arpeggios and very simple thirds figurations during ending and opening. However, if you asked me to tell you what keys they were and/or to visualize where my fingers are on the piano at any given moment in my head, I can't tell you.
 

Analysis, analysis, analysis, analysis, analysis!
I'll tell you my routine, its important points, and then you can do whatever you want with it, but it's important to find something that YOU like and that works for you. I am a theory junkie, I love theory, I love seeing how the composers make all of it line up (and this might help your interpretation too, wink wink nudge nudge), so the first thing I do when I take a piece is I look at the general form. Maybe it's two or three sections repeated a couple times with a Coda? (Chopin Nocturne Op. 9 No. 2) Maybe it's a Sonata with two themes that change keys? (Moonlight Mov. 1) Anyway, get a general framework of it. Then, label every chord. This might take some time to get used to, but this made all the difference in sightreading for me; I look at a bar and I immediately recognize the chord, and my hands jump to it. (As an aside, sometimes in sight reading I'll play not exactly the notes, but the right chord shhhh don't tell anyone)
After I've analyzed it, whatever the key the piece is in, I'll do this as a warmup:

1. Play the scale
2. Play the arpeggio of every chord in the scale (I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii-) a couple times
3. Play through the circle of 5ths in that key
4. Pick a chord progression and improvise on it in that key

And then I'll play the actual piece. I don't do so much of that anymore, but when I was first starting to do that, I did.
Make it a point to recognize as many chords/structures/theory stuff as possible, and eventually it becomes natural to you. Kind of like speaking a language. :]

I'll do the first few bars of Clair de Lune for you.

1. Db/F
2. Gb dim7
3. Db/F
4. Ab7
5. Eb m7/Db and then Ab7
6. Eb m7/Bb and then F7/A

The melody is easy enough to realize and then you see that everything moves in thirds or seconds
Hope that helps ^^

I just keep practicing the piece without bothering to think about memorizing it, and around the time when I am reasonably happy with my progress, it is already memorized, without any extra work.

If you can see the keyboard in your head away from the piano and know which notes you're playing, and can hear the sound, good. If you can't...then I'd suggest trying to focus on what you're playing more because hand memory is dangerous

[briansaddleback]

Thanks for your practical advice. I'm going to try some of that.

[maxkarlstedt]

I remember the music through muscle memory and in chunks.

The only real classical music I can play fluently is Für Elise (the first famous part most people know about).

First I play the right hand piece C, C#, C, C#, etc.

And then my left hand starts playing because I remember in muscle memory A -> E -> A.

And then my right hand plays because I remember that muscle memory and so on.

That is my only way of learning and knowing some songs and mostly right hand melodies without any accords. I'm currently drilling my left hand to extinction, hehe. I cannot read notes yet.

Interestingly enough, I have a very hard time writing down the notes (using letters) for a piece I know through muscle memory, but when I play the first notes I can usually find my way around and I have some hearing that helps me to hear if I am out of tune in the melody.