method book suggestion (older student)

[lorcar]

I read the thread about Chang FoPP, and as usual many alternative opinions about both the book and the author.
I must say first time I discovered that book I felt like I was "not alone" with my problems of older (almost 40) student returning to piano after 3 decades, and with a work and a family. I felt (and I still do) very frustrated by the endless repetition, but the difficult to practice (lack of time), by the hand memory rather than full memory. Therefore I felt the need of something which would allow me to make the most of the short study time, make the time spent on the piano most effective. I asked teachers (I was not studying on my own), and their answer was simply "slower". Which it didn't look very smart to me. THen I found Chang book, and this forum with Barnard threads and Josh Wright piano lessons on youtube. And I realized they were suggesting more or less the same: fragmenting the piece, practice in small sections, understand mistakes instead of repeating them, etc all stuff you know.
But I was wondering if there is a book with a clear method, a method of learning and maximize time efficiency, not a book about music, pianists, philosophy, etc. Something practical.
Reading here and there I found this list, and I wonder which is the METHOD book you'd suggest, thanks

Berman, Notes from the Pianist's Bench
Schenker, The Art of Performance
Neuhaus, The Art of Piano Playing
The Russian Piano School
Chang, Fundamentals of Piano Practice
Bernstein, With Your Own Two Hands
Newman, The Pianist's Problems
Sandor, On Piano Playing
Foldes, Keys to the Keyboard (as a brief introduction)
Kochevitsky, The Art of Piano Playing
Banowitz, The Pianist's Guide to Pedaling
Hofmann, Piano Playing
Lhevinne, Basic Principles of Pianoforte Playing
Slenzynska, Music at Your Fingertips
Gieseking/Leimer, Piano Technique
Bree, Leschetizky Method
Friskin, The Principles of Pianoforte Practice
Gat, The Technique of Piano Playing
Cooke, Playing the Piano for Pleasure

[adodd81802]

Hi Lorcar.

I don't know anybody that have read through all these books, and so can only assume that somebody that provides you an opinion on any book, probably only read a handful and found what works for them.

Now

[adodd81802]

Hi Lorcar.

I don't know anybody that have read through all these books, and so can only assume that somebody that provides you an opinion on any book, probably only read a handful and found what works for them.

Now I'm not really sure there is one perfect method, or one that you can swear by. Many will have their pros and con's, but you are not going to read through any of them books and

A - have a perfect clear method on piano playing
B - Agree with everything you have read.

Most of these books are often written on what works for them, which for no one pianist is the exactly the same thing.

I think to maximise time and efficiency, you need to learn pieces that are within your skill range. Endless repetition is a sight that it's either mindless and you have no goal in mind, or you're not achieving anything because the level of the piece is out of your current skill set. You could spend 6 months on a monster piece that you feel you've not achieved anything, or spend 6x 1 months learning 6 pieces within your level.

for me, I have spare time, but i purposely have short practice sessions, with goals in mind that can be achieved within those sessions. I know my skill level, I know what can be achieved and I work on that. If i bite off more than I can chew, I assess it and break it down further.

Try different learning methods and see what works for you. You said you don't like repetition, maybe you're trying to memorize notes the wrong way. If you've read Changs book, you're familiar with the different learning methods such as mental play etc.

Definitely be patient with your progress, especially if you don't get to spend long at the piano, work on other ways you can improve your piano ability or even understanding.

[outin]

I have looked at or read most of those books and I would not really call all of them "method books" in the modern sense of the term. Some focus on issues on piano playing and can give you some extra insights, especially on suggesting practice methods, but they can't fully teach you how to play the piano. Even the more comprehensive methods can not really cover all the problems you may encounter.

Have you tried studying with a proper teacher? It would save you a lot of time and you could focus on repertoire instead of reading books...it's too easy to misunderstand words when it comes to learning to play.

If you already have the basic skills you can surely benefit from the new insights of different books, but even then you really need to see yourself what works for you and what doesn't.

[lorcar]

Try different learning methods

thanks for the detailed reply

could you please mention at least some of those methods you refer to? It seems often people refer to different methods, but then they never tell which they are. How many methods do you know? which are the main differences?
thanks

[lorcar]

I have looked at or read most of those books and I would not really call all of them "method books" in the modern sense of the term. 
Have you tried studying with a proper teacher? 

thanls outin
therefore you wouldnt recommend any?

I do have a teacher, but again, I feel teachers do not give you shortcuts or tricks or methods, rather they explain you  a piece, walk you through, focus on rhytm, musicality, etc, rather than proper methods

[outin]

thanls outin
therefore you wouldnt recommend any?

I do have a teacher, but again, I feel teachers do not give you shortcuts or tricks or methods, rather they explain you  a piece, walk you through, focus on rhytm, musicality, etc, rather than proper methods

My teacher does give me plenty of tricks how to manage things and also is very focused on technique.

Best practice methods I feel are so individual that I think it is best to just try different ways and see what works for you in the long run. I don't think there's any one book perfect for that. I would use many sources of information.

[adodd81802]

thanks for the detailed reply

could you please mention at least some of those methods you refer to? It seems often people refer to different methods, but then they never tell which they are. How many methods do you know? which are the main differences?
thanks

No problem, as Outin rightly said "methods" are quite personal, not in a secretive way, but in that it should be so natural you can't 100% consciously recall the way you learn and so explaining it can be difficult. It's also not just 1 method, but a fraction of different bits put together to achieve the end result.

So you said you read Changs book, are there no methods in there? I have skim read it and found things like

"Mental Play"
Reading through bars and memorizing them away from the piano and trying to practice what you've memorized. This can be good if you don't get much time physically at the piano, or can use work breaks or small times to read over the same bar a couple of times.

Go bar by bar until you can start memorizing more in one go. If you really struggle with this, that should indicate just how much you are pulling from your brain and how much you're relying on your fingers "muscle memory", and sound etc, sight.

Some pianists, rather than continuously repeat the same sections until they can do them, or they become ingrained in the brain, they make exercises, or find exercises that assist with the motions required for pieces and actually practice the exercises and revisit the piece when the technical exercises are smooth.

One thing that can be good about exercises, is you don't have to focus on the musicality as much giving you the ability to concentrate more on the motions and the exercise itself. Also for efficient playing it will really pay off down the line; for example if you are learning a piece with fast 3rds and you find some technical exercises to really nail them, any piece with 3rds in the future will be easier.

You have got to try different things and see what works for you with the time frames that you have. But you have also got to be realistic about your goals, if you cannot spend much time practicing, you cannot expect the same results that you could achieved if you doubled your practice time - within reason.

Lastly going back to your point of slowness. That definitely helps, I believe that was also mentioned in Changs book. Slowness prevents mistakes and allows you to work out technical difficulties. I mention again that you can't rely solely one 1 method and think that's the entire way to learn a piece going forward, it's definitely a collection of different skills, in the same way that driving a car isn't just turning the steering wheel.  You may not need all the skills at once or every time, but you do need to learn to utilize them when required.

[lorcar]

thank you guys

I agree on everything you wrote, about methods being so personal that one should choose autonomously what works.
But perhaps my english is what prevents my question from being undestood.

You write "practice methods", "different ways", "methods". These are PLURAL.
I would like to know which are these methods. If you don't even know which are the available methods, it is impossible to make the individual choice.
If I want to learn how to swim, there are different schools and approaches one can choose from. If you want to study architecture, you can choose one school of thought or the other.

Is there anything similar with piano methods and learning? We all agreed Chang is one method. Which are those OTHER methods you both mention? I know there is the  "russian school" or "neapolitan school", linked to their respective traditions. But I think this refers more to the interpretation, to the sound, to the repertoire, rather than the learning method.

hope now the question is clearer

thanks again

[adodd81802]

Hi Lorcar,

I think Methods is a generic term and used not to describe the entire approach to the piano but to specific ways of doing everything.

You know the method to driving a car is one thing, but what if you need to change a tyre? it's still part of the car but you need a new method for that.

You do need to be a little more specific to get clearer answers.

Chang's book, and others as also stated by Outin, aren't as much 1-method books, as they are a collection of likely problems and solutions or methods.

For example for playing scales, traditionally thumb is tucked under - the thumb under method.
However there is also a thumb-"over" method which involves different movements that do not require the thumb to tuck under.

Now say your problem is memorizing pieces, 1 method would be to read the score away from the piano and then go back to the piano without the score and see how much you can remember.

Another method may be to read 1 bar at the piano, cover it, play it back until you remember and then move onto the next bar.

And so you see a method is not a full how to guide of playing the piano, they are a collection of methods to address problems. My issue with big books or schools is that you cannot apply the same collection of methods to everybody and assume it will work. we are all different people and learn differently and this is why you could send 1000 to a "Russian school" and 1000 don't come out as piano virtuoso's?

If you have specific problems that need addressing such as a bar in a piece, a timing, understanding a piece of theory, I am sure you will receive a lot of answers, but there is no (in my opinion) methodologies that are going to cover all your questions and unlikely you will connect with 100%, you have to take away ideas and experiment and see what works for you.

So how do you find new methods? You address specific problems, and search for advice on specific problems either from a teacher (the best way) or from forums or from friends.

Now you've said you're returning to the piano as an adult. I'm not sure if you're a beginner, but if you are you need to consider a teacher if you are hoping to take the piano seriously to start establishing what works for you and what is appropriate with your short study time, otherwise you need to be realistic with your goals.

So in answer to your actual question - In my opinion, No, There is not a book with a clear method that maximizes efficiency at the piano, because we all learn a different way, and the way to maximize efficiency is to take little steps, finding little methods to address specific problems that work for us and allow us to be efficient.

[lorcar]

thank you so much for the time you spent to reply. I do appreciate it.
Nevertheless, I must say I do not agree 100% with what you say

You do need to be a little more specific to get clearer answers.

sticking with your example, it would be "which is the most efficient way to learn to drive" rather than " which is the best way to press the pedal" or "turn the driving wheel"

Chang's book, and others as also stated by Outin, aren't as much 1-method books, as they are a collection of likely problems and solutions or methods.

do not agree, I think so far Chang is the ONLY method I have seen. Chang is what I call learning method, or (being the same) collection of learning methods. Everyone talks about other methods, but never pointed out, to me at least.

 
And so you see a method is not a full how to guide of playing the piano, they are a collection of methods to address problems.

sure, this is correct, and I do agree

My issue with big books or schools is that you cannot apply the same collection of methods to everybody and assume it will work. we are all different people and learn differently and this is why you could send 1000 to a "Russian school" and 1000 don't come out as piano virtuoso's?

agree again. But I didnt ask for the perfect method for me. I simply asked for "which are the methods out there".
Sticking with your example: you wouldnt get 1000 great pianists, but you'd get 1000 people with very very good technique

  there is no (in my opinion) methodologies that are going to cover all your questions

but there should be something to cover most of what 90% of piano students ask. I assume most of the problems are the same, at the beginning at least.
In every field of knowledge there is such a manual. It would be shocking only in piano there is not!!

and unlikely you will connect with 100%, you have to take away ideas and experiment and see what works for you.

I agree 100%. But, again, in order to take away ideas, i need a picture of the ideas out there

 

 

[adodd81802]

Hi Lorcar. I do understand where your questions stem from, but I still think you're looking at the too bigger picture here.

So the most efficient way to learn to drive - Get a teacher! Sure you can read books on driving, but a problem with method books is they can only offer advice, they can't respond to problems. It is also a lot more effective to physically show somebody a process or method rather than just trying to explain it.

You're right lots of different fields have books, loads of books in their respective field that can other technical and physical knowledge on how to train to be the best of something. But take running for example, I imagine the books are endless, then along comes Usain Bolt, the fastest man on the planet, do you think he's read any of these books?

Take this method example, going back to Changs book, he says don't do Hanon exercises, they're not good and a waste of time (paraphrasing) However, there will be many people that contest this and tell you Hanon was a god send to them and definitely improved their piano playing.

Both Sergei Rachmaninoff and Josef Lhévinne claimed Hanon to be the secret of why the Russian piano school delivered an explosion of virtuosi in their time

There you can see, again, that there's no set "method(s)" that you can follow that's going to answer your problems and I could see you end up asking more questions, as you'd read one "method" that contradicts another "method" that compliments another "method". Why don't you just pick up a piece and try and learn it and see what you struggle with and then get help on those specific areas rather than look for an all-in-one approach.

You've said that you think Chang is the only book you've seen, (I personally don't rate it that highly but for beginners it may seem a very informative book) and followed up with you're not looking for a perfect method, why don't you consider just following Chang's book and see how you get on? The original list of books you provided, if you spent all your time reading them, you'd have time better spent sitting at the piano and trying to make some progress.

I stand by that I don't consider Chang's a method book as in "Here's my method on playing the piano", but more of a collection of methods to respond to problems or a  Q + A for beginners that need some pointing in the direction, but while there are some points i will agree with in his writing, there's also points I don't agree with or even feel like any real evidence supports some of the statements.

I hope my points or writing doesn't come across as argumentative. I'm by no means an expert and so could not definitively say not to look for the answers in method books or trying to digest too much at once. But you definitely can learn a lot by sitting at the piano and trying to progress and learning from your mistakes (if you do not have a teacher)

Efficiency in piano playing, is simply getting it right, and you did cover the point in your first post about slowness. Ensuring your practice is slow enough to be able to play the notes correctly every time is the most efficient way to learn a piece. You may discover more difficulties along the way but it's more logical to address those in steps rather than try and anticipate them with books.

[lorcar]

1- running for example, I imagine the books are endless, then along comes Usain Bolt, the fastest man on the planet, do you think he's read any of these books?

2- You've said that you think Chang is the only book you've seen, (I personally don't rate it that highly)
 
3- look for the answers in method books   

thanks again
1- i dont see the point of such an example. I could give you 100s videos on youtube that teach (or at least try to) efficient ways to run. Obviously you need to follow this theory with practice. I never said I want to become the Bolt of piano....

2- I didn't even rate it. I simply said that SO FAR CHANG IS THE ONLY PIANO LEARNING METHOD I AM AWARE. There is no judgment nor positive/negative value

3- i wish I could find some method books where to look for answers. Unfortunately, I do not know any other book besides Chang's

thanks again

[visitor]

i'd go through the entire hummel method book. if you supplement that with lots of Bach, it's pretty hard to beat. the thing about modern methods (even modern as in there is a different in methods/courses from first half of 20th century) are too easy, they water everything down. If you pick up some old courses from the 1930's-through say 1960's, they are loads better than current iterations of alfred bastein, etc.

there's an english version out there some where but it's hard to find
original is on imslp look for
Ausführliche theoretisch-practische Anweisung zum Piano-Forte-Spiel (Hummel, Johann Nepomuk)

[lorcar]

thanks
is it this?

https://imslp.nl/imglnks/usimg/9/92/IMSLP104933-PMLP214298-Hummel_-_Anweisung.pdf

[visitor]

thanks
is it this?

https://imslp.nl/imglnks/usimg/9/92/IMSLP104933-PMLP214298-Hummel_-_Anweisung.pdf

yep. it's not easy but pushes the student quickly early on and doesn't spoon feed at such a slow growth level that it stunts progress like many modern method books.

i have it in english but don't know why it's not on imslp, can't remember for the life of me where i got it,file is huge, no way or sharing it either, and i likely would need permission from the original scanner or person that gave it me, but if even with out the english, the exercises are great and music has it's own language so there's lots of benefits to be had from working through it, Hummel was one of or probably THE great virtuoso of his time.  The guy knew a thing or two about playing and improving at the piano.

[outin]

While Hummel's method book is admirable (it really is one of the most comprehensive ever written), I don't know if it works that well if used today without a teacher. And if your work through the whole book, it will take a long time and you are still stuck on the classical era

When you ask about a method you think of a full study plan with detailed instruction, right? A method can also refer to a specific practice method that people use.

There are modern method books that have pieces, exercises and some general intruction and theory. But even those are seldom directed to be used without a teacher (but there are some). This is mainly because even the writers usually agree that a teacher is needed.

There are also books focused on the physical side of playing and how to learn to use your body, Thomas Marks and Seymor Finks for example.

But I still think books on playing will not get you far...in the end piano playing is best learned by combining many sources of information, gradually digging deeper in and looking wider at it.

I personally prefer to learn to play by working on repertoire (and occasional exercises) with my teacher. By reading I like to expand my understanding and knowlegde about music, composers and music history. So these days I read a lot of books about music, but less on playing. In the beginning I also looked for a good answer on how to learn to play from books but never really found it...

[adodd81802]

yep. it's not easy but pushes the student quickly early on and doesn't spoon feed at such a slow growth level that it stunts progress like many modern method books.

i have it in english but don't know why it's not on imslp, can't remember for the life of me where i got it,file is huge, no way or sharing it either, and i likely would need permission from the original scanner or person that gave it me, but if even with out the english, the exercises are great and music has it's own language so there's lots of benefits to be had from working through it, Hummel was one of or probably THE great virtuoso of his time.  The guy knew a thing or two about playing and improving at the piano.

Visitor the English version is a free download here -
https://urresearch.rochester.edu/institutionalPublicationPublicView.action?institutionalItemId=28625

You're right it's a large file. I've downloaded to give it a read, as up until this point, i've suggested to the OP there's no "method" books that can truely be followed by the book, and would be interested to see what this book has to offer.

[adodd81802]

While Hummel's method book is admirable (it really is one of the most comprehensive ever written), I don't know if it works that well if used today without a teacher. And if your work through the whole book, it will take a long time and you are still stuck on the classical era

When you ask about a method you think of a full study plan with detailed instruction, right? A method can also refer to a specific practice method that people use.

There are modern method books that have pieces, exercises and some general intruction and theory. But even those are seldom directed to be used without a teacher (but there are some). This is mainly because even the writers usually agree that a teacher is needed.

There are also books focused on the physical side of playing and how to learn to use your body, Thomas Marks and Seymor Finks for example.

But I still think books on playing will not get you far...in the end piano playing is best learned by combining many sources of information, gradually digging deeper in and looking wider at it.

I personally prefer to learn to play by working on repertoire (and occasional exercises) with my teacher. By reading I like to expand my understanding and knowlegde about music, composers and music history. So these days I read a lot of books about music, but less on playing. In the beginning I also looked for a good answer on how to learn to play from books but never really found it...

Outin I agree with your points and feel you have probably explained better than I have the reason not to be searching for a full "method" book on piano playing.

[mjames]

I dont know if it has been mentioned before but what helps me a lot with memorization is studying the harmonic makeup of a piece.

[hardy_practice]

Wow adodd!  I've been wanting an English version of the Hummel for some years now.  Thanks a bundle.  The translation sucks - but then I already knew that.

[zaporozhe]

Re: Chang, 3rd Ed.(!)

1) He needs an editor.

2) Unless you have some years invested in the piano, I find it difficult to believe you could separate the wheat from the chaff.

[lorcar]

2) Unless you have some years invested in the piano, I find it difficult to believe you could separate the wheat from the chaff.

what does that mean? it got lost in translation I guess

[hardy_practice]

I find it difficult to believe you could separate the wheat from the chaff.

In the old days you pounded your wheat till it all separated from the stalks.  You then through the whole lot in the air from a blanket.  The wind blew the chaff away leaving you with your wheat for bread etc.

[lorcar]

In the old days you pounded your wheat till it all separated from the stalks.  You then through the whole lot in the air from a blanket.  The wind blew the chaff away leaving you with your wheat for bread etc.

thanks
which applied to this thread means? that if you are not somehow at a good level you cannot assess what is a good method for you?

[hardy_practice]

That you'd need to be quite good on piano to know what to accept and what to reject of Mr Chang's book.  I looked it over when it first appeared - there was little that I'd argue with.

[hardy_practice]

I don't know anybody that have read through all these books, and so can only assume that somebody that provides you an opinion on any book, probably only read a handful and found what works for them.

I've read, and have, all but two - and many more besides.

[adodd81802]

Re: Chang, 3rd Ed.(!)

1) He needs an editor.

2) Unless you have some years invested in the piano, I find it difficult to believe you could separate the wheat from the chaff.

I also agree with this after reading a large portion of the book.

[kriatina]

I read the thread about Chang FoPP, and as usual many alternative opinions about both the book and the author.
I must say first time I discovered that book I felt like I was "not alone" with my problems of older (almost 40) student returning to piano after 3 decades, and with a work and a family. I felt (and I still do) very frustrated by the endless repetition, but the difficult to practice (lack of time), by the hand memory rather than full memory. Therefore I felt the need of something which would allow me to make the most of the short study time, make the time spent on the piano most effective. I asked teachers (I was not studying on my own), and their answer was simply "slower". Which it didn't look very smart to me. THen I found Chang book, and this forum with Barnard threads and Josh Wright piano lessons on youtube. And I realized they were suggesting more or less the same: fragmenting the piece, practice in small sections, understand mistakes instead of repeating them, etc all stuff you know.
But I was wondering if there is a book with a clear method, a method of learning and maximize time efficiency, not a book about music, pianists, philosophy, etc. Something practical.
Reading here and there I found this list, and I wonder which is the METHOD book you'd suggest, thanks

Berman, Notes from the Pianist's Bench
Schenker, The Art of Performance
Neuhaus, The Art of Piano Playing
The Russian Piano School
Chang, Fundamentals of Piano Practice
Bernstein, With Your Own Two Hands
Newman, The Pianist's Problems
Sandor, On Piano Playing
Foldes, Keys to the Keyboard (as a brief introduction)
Kochevitsky, The Art of Piano Playing
Banowitz, The Pianist's Guide to Pedaling
Hofmann, Piano Playing
Lhevinne, Basic Principles of Pianoforte Playing
Slenzynska, Music at Your Fingertips
Gieseking/Leimer, Piano Technique
Bree, Leschetizky Method
Friskin, The Principles of Pianoforte Practice
Gat, The Technique of Piano Playing
Cooke, Playing the Piano for Pleasure

Hello,
as an older "complete starter from scratch" I can only say that the difficulty is for you to find out, which book "speaks" best to you...
We are all different and different books "speak" to different people in different ways...
When I started to learn playing the piano - from scratch - I went regularly to a second-hand-book-shop and bought (very affordably) as many piano-beginner-books as I could find and it all started from there for me. I also studied piano-books in Libraries etc. ...  I then noticed, that in every book I could find something to learn more, educate myself better and it helped me to develop further... Strangely enough, the book that helped and convinced me most of all is a photocopy of Muzio Clementi's 1801 "Introduction to the Art of playing on the Pianoforte"...
Good luck and have fun!

[CC]

I want to make sure you are reading my 3rd edition, go to my web link below, it is not yet completely finished, but close.  There, I review in considerable detail, 9 or 10 of the 18 books you list, in fact, I review 42 (!) books in all.  That should give you an idea of what's out there.

You never defined what your idea of a method book is.  I suspect that what you mean is a standardized textbook.  Like, if you studied algebra, or physics, or history, or sociology, they all have textbooks.  Piano is one of the few exceptions. There ain't no such thing for piano!  That's why I wrote my book, hoping that it might be a good start towards finally having a piano textbook.  Yes, there are hundreds of piano books, but my guess is that none of them can be considered textbooks.  You might look into Humphries, that I also review in my book; it is probably closest to what you might be looking for.

You may have a deeper problem, something I hoped to address in my book, which is a collection of solutions to problems such that YOU can use them to design your own practice routines. That's what almost all textbooks do: give you as much of the basic knowledge as there is for learning that specific field. My opinion is that you can't succeed in piano unless you can mature as a human and as a musician; ie, you must take responsibility for your own progress and not depend on a teacher or a book for every detail of what to do next. So you need to look at yourself to see what YOU can do, not what a teacher or book can do for you, because there is already enough material out there.

[CC]

I not only read over 40 books, over a span of over 20 years (it was a huge undertaking in itself) I took detailed notes and included everything in them, that were relevant to someone practicing to learn piano, into my book.  That was my motivation for reading them.  My reviews also rate these books according to whether they are worth reading:  must read, not recommended, etc., so readers can buy only books with worthwhile info, plus a summary of the major points of each book.  Including all relevant material into my book was disappointing because there were so few; whatever was relevant mostly overlapped, so there were few new items in each book. Over 80% of them contained misinformation.  Not only the books, but I also cite over 50 references, some of which contain more info than some of the books.

My most general conclusion from all this research was that piano textbooks were never written because of the wrong belief that to succeed in piano, you need talent which, unfortunately has some validity -- smarter people always do better than dumb ones.  But this belief turned out to be devastating for students because if they didn't progress, it was their fault -- they weren't talented enough.  Teachers were never responsible for the students failures, and teachers who couldn't teach were never held accountable in the sense that they never really had to learn how to teach. This situation produced generation after generation of teachers who could not teach because the students were not taught. Without adequate documentation, every student and every teacher had to re-invent piano pedagogy from scratch, which is what I saw in all those books.  The proof is in the almost total lack of references in those books to previous work. My book has over 100 total references, and that is still not complete, but that's all I could handle in my lifetime.  Having a good textbook can almost eliminate the untold misery suffered by so many students, repeating and repeating without progress, without the knowledge that is already out there, but not taught.

A frequent statement I hear/read is that piano teaching can't be put down on paper because every student and teacher is different and there are so many possible approaches. It took me a long time to realize that this was just a self-serving cop-out way of saying that they were INCAPABLE of writing them down. With sufficient education, knowledge, motivation, and resources, they CAN write them all down.  It was done with all other advanced fields of education; there is no reason why piano should be the only exception. But, of course, the teachers were not to blame, because they were trapped in this self-propagating system, and unlike other fields, resources is a major obstacle in piano; there is very little financial resources compared to other fields.  Rock stars earn a lot of money, but they are too few in number and those monies are piled back, not into education, but into studies of teen-age psychology that attract them to certain types of music.

There are over 10,000 books and articles on Franz Liszt, with over a dozen Liszt societies, and thousands of teachers who claim to teach the "Liszt method". Yet I have found only a few pages that describe liszt's teachings. This resulted because (1) if you were to ask Liszt how to play something, he will sit down on the piano and show you -- but can't teach you how to practice so YOU can do that too, (2) he had no idea how he became that good -- after all, he was talented, right? and (3) he was so good, he could only teach the concert pianist level pianists; beginners who aspire to be concert pianists, who need the "Liszt methoid" most, are all out of luck.

But there is hope. If conservatories don't wake up and change their systems from preserving the status quo to researching how to teach, then private teachers are starting to make use of free information such as the internet, to learn how to teach. This will eventually force the conservatories to wake up -- it's only a matter of time.  My book wasn't a fluke; it had to happen, and I am sure that much better stuff will soon become available because proper documentation is a one-way street.  All the goodies in there will never be lost again as we did with Liszt, etc.,; no more re-inventing the wheel with every student and every teacher, and we can only add better stuff in the future.

[hardy_practice]

A frequent statement I hear/read is that piano teaching can't be put down on paper because every student and teacher is different and there are so many possible approaches. It took me a long time to realize that this was just a self-serving cop-out way of saying that they were INCAPABLE of writing them down.

No.  Not because 'everyone is different' but because something needs to be passed body-to-body and there's no other way to do it.

[twelfthroot2]

In addition to all of the great replies on this thread...

You can find exceptional pianists that have used all of the "methods" mentioned.  This can be view as:

1. different methods produced different pianists
2. great pianists were destined regardless of the method used

Maybe it's not the method, but the quality of dedicated and consistent practice.  Regardless of method, the greats (or even very good professional/amateur) pianists have put in many (good) hours of practice.

Whether it's through Hanon or repertoire pieces, your fingers have to learn the keys, and lessen the responsibility of the eyes.  This cannot be avoided if you want to become proficient.  The fingers must be accurate and nimble (and musical of course).  Maybe the difference between moving them in response to Hanon or in response to repertoire is less important than how your brain develops the coordination and creates a mental image of the keys (where is the "method" book on this???).  I guess it's implicitly assumed that the brain will get the necessary training just from completing the "method", but don't let this be overlooked.  Make it a conscious effort.  It's better to have a small range of notes/techniques that you can dominate and feel completely comfortable with to the point of not even trying to move your fingers but letting them move themselves, then to extend yourself too far and become sloppy.  In the end, you must be able to build off of previous successes.

I don't remember the exact Horowitz quote (I'm sure someone here does), but he said that he could teach someone how to play piano in 10 minutes.  Obviously it would take much longer than that to become proficient.

OP, if you're confused which "path" to follow, then do them all and see which parts you respond to best.  There are lots of contradictions on the subject (Hanon vs repertoire, 2-3 hrs per day vs 8-10, etc.), so test them all.  Practice 1 hour every day for a few weeks, then try 5-10 hrs per day and see the effect.

In the end, the piano provides an opportunity for you to learn about yourself.  If you love the music, the composers, the countless number of pianists who have dedicated their entire lives to refining over-and-over their skills at the piano, the relationships and sequences of notes played in succession or in parallel or even a single tone by itself, the interesting rhythms from the written page, or the ones you've created yourself by just letting your imagination run wild, then it should not be such a pain to sit down at the piano with an open mind and see where it takes you for the next hour or 6 (of course take breaks frequently).