Finger 5, ways to avoid the stressing of

[richard w]

One of the biggest concerns in my playing is the way certain types of writing seem to put a great deal of strain on my little fingers. Typically, things like octave playing or voicing cause the biggest problems. This is unfortunate, as such writing is frequently encountered in the repertoire.

I've started work on Chopin's F sharp minor Polonaise Op. 44 which, given the writing, would typically induce this problem. Whilst learning this piece, I plan to work on my technique to minimise any such difficulties. To do this I'm trying to relax the hand as soon as I have played the notes, and I'm also trying to open the hand out at the knuckles, rather than just use the fingers. Chang refers to this as 'stretching the palm'.

My questions, then.

1) How soon after playing the note should I be able to relax the hand? For instance, during the semiquaver-octave passages is there time to relax?
2) In 'stretching the palm' it seems to me that I end up with more tension than I started with. That's obviously not right, so I'd appreciate some comments on how to do it better.
3) Thinking now of Op.61 Polonaise-Fantaisie, two pages from the end I have to hold notes with finger 5 whist repeating chords with the other fingers at an octave stretch. This I find particularly problematic, and very difficult to relax finger 5. Again, I'd very much appreciate some comments on this.
4) Any other comments which might give me an insight?


As well as some fresh thoughts, I'd be grateful for links to any relevant old topics (I didn't find very much when searching), or external references which might help me out.


Thanks for your input.



Richard.

[Maui]

1) How soon after playing the note should I be able to relax the hand? For instance, during the semiquaver-octave passages is there time to relax?

3) Thinking now of Op.61 Polonaise-Fantaisie, two pages from the end I have to hold notes with finger 5 whist repeating chords with the other fingers at an octave stretch. This I find particularly problematic, and very difficult to relax finger 5. Again, I'd very much appreciate some comments on this.

1. you have to make relaxing a natural and automatic proceedure for your hand, that is, you practice very slow, so you can feel the hand relaxing, then you speed up as the relaxation has become faster... you can relax in everything.

3. to be able to play notes while holding others thats what is pre-requisite: be able to play all the chords with maximum relaxation, specially in the 5th finger  (if thats the situation). then you will practice changing chords with your hand weight used in a way that the gravitational center allow your holding finger to stay relaxed all the time.

I hope it helps.

[ahmedito]

Having played the Polonaise-Fantasie, I know exactly what place you are talking about, because it caused me a lot of headaches (and pinkieaches too). The big problem in my opinion is pressing down instead of playing the chords with an upwards motion.... its hard to describe: Think of a snare drum. If you hit the snare drum with a downwards motion and keep the stick on the head, the sound will stop inmediately. If you bounce with the stick after you hit the head, the sound will travel. Its the same with this passage, dont press down, and let you hand bounce and the stress on your pinkie will be a lot less. By the way, check your fingering, because when I play it I tend to substitute 5 for 4 in a lot of places, and even play some with 5-4 simultaneously on a key. In some places you dont really need to keep the finger down, just use your ear and the pedal to make different layers in the music aparent. Good luck That is one hard piece.

[xvimbi]

... and I'm also trying to open the hand out at the knuckles, rather than just use the fingers. Chang refers to this as 'stretching the palm'.

I am not so sure what you mean by this. Furthermore, stretching the palm is not stretching at the knuckles! The fingers start at the wrist. Stretching the fingers at the wrist will give the largest span, so opening the hand should always start at the wrist. Stretching at the knuckles is possible, but rather difficult. It is usually forced rather than a controlled motion, e.g. when playing a fourth with fingers 2 and 3, one of the fingers is already is usually already on the key, while the other one "reaches" out for the next note.

[richard w]

I am not so sure what you mean by this. Furthermore, stretching the palm is not stretching at the knuckles! The fingers start at the wrist. Stretching the fingers at the wrist will give the largest span, so opening the hand should always start at the wrist. Stretching at the knuckles is possible, but rather difficult. It is usually forced rather than a controlled motion, e.g. when playing a fourth with fingers 2 and 3, one of the fingers is already is usually already on the key, while the other one "reaches" out for the next note.

Yes, I see what you mean. That might well explain why it doesn't seem to make things any better. For a moment (whilst I was reading Chang) I felt I had made a breakthrough discovery, but I don't now understand how I couldn't have been opening the palm all along. It seems to be part and parcel of spreading the fingers.



Anyway, I don't feel as if I've got very far with curing this problem, just yet. I'm working on the suggestions above, but it's still work in progress at this stage. Any further comments would be most welcome.

Thanks so far.

[MatthewClarke]

Hello,

when you say HOLDING DOWN NOTES, that is exactly what you are doing and this causes stress, the only down action you need is the moment you make sound and then you HOLT any action, and there is enough arm weight to just hold the note down you release the muscles in your upper arm to produce this arm weight, when you release these muscles, you will notice your wrist will go slightly down which pulls on the hand and the hand pulls on the knuckles and the with the aid of simply having the finger placed over the note, it will just stay down, there is no need to HOLD DOWN NOTES, EVER!!!
this can be applied with chords, just position your fingers over what ever notes you want, touching the notes, feeling the notes, and when you want to play them down, just release that arm weight evenly over each finger so they play down together, if you want to make a certain note sound out you simply tilt your wrist to the side of the hand the note is, it is the same action as when you play a tremelo, the 2 bones in the lower arm twist around each other, just twist it toward that note.
Never use your fingers, just play with your arms and let your fingers be an aid in playing with your arms, so they do the least work possible. Read Tobias Matthay Act Of Touch.
Bye from Matt.

[gyzzzmo]

Hi,
The more you use  a finger, the more 'stamina' the finger will get. so you should stop playing when you notice you are -forcing- a finger. Instead of stopping you can also play a lot slower and concentrate on that finger: be aware you use it and with  really little effort.
A good way of practising the 3th, 4th and 5th finger is playing etude 2 op10 of chopin. Be aware of every touch!