After Specific Techniques

[schnez]

Hi there,

Glad to now be part of this community!

I wanted to ask for some advice and some pointers in technique and certain styles, a bit of theory and so on. To start with, I'll give a bit of context about who/what I am, where I've come from and what I'm doing now.

I started off studying Music Technology in about 2006 with the intent of becoming a music producer, something that has more recently took shape. I had done a small crash course in music theory in about 2005 to help with my music production, which helped massively though I couldn't actually play any keys at all. I pretty much played individual notes or drew them in on screen, which is obviously an extremely long way around this. Fast forward through college and university and now I'm now teaching at the place I originally studied, at as music technology tutor. About 2 (it might even be 3) years ago, my mum bought me 4 introductory piano lessons which I thoroughly enjoyed, and would've loved to pursue however family and mortgages now stand in the way of regular lessons; which is a pity as I had tried to self teach from YouTube and I made more progression in those 4 weeks that 4 years of making it up as I went along.

I can now play 2 handed, to a degree and use this within my own music production quite a lot now with a focus on piano (I produce electronic music). Another avenue I'm trying to pursue, although quite hard, is down the ska/reggae route. I have quite an obsession that I've developed over the years with organs; primarily the hammond B3 & variants and Vox Continentals. I've done a lot of research into how to use them, how they're built and, something that I'm struggling with, technique.

Here is a video with a lot of the tracks in the style that I'd love to learn and play:

Aside from 2 YouTube uploaders, I've found sod all in the way of organ technique. Whilst their videos have been good in terms of introducing me to techniques, I find they go quite fast over some of the more detailed techniques (or at least what I think are). For the most part, the chords are really easy and it's a syncopated rhythm, this I know. It's not a problem with the chords that I have but the scale that these tracks are in. So now, onto the questions I have:

Do they stick to traditional scales or do they just stick with major chords? I struggle to understand this for the most part, especially when it comes to improvisation.
Is playing the organ a different ballpark entirely to the piano? Or are a lot of techniques transferable? This may seem like a stupid question, but I often think that maybe I should try and find specifically an organ tutor as opposed to a piano tutor.
What's going to be the best thing for me to focus on for the time being, to be able to play in this style?

I think it's probably worth mentioning too, that I have 2 actual electric organs at home, a hammond (can't remember the model number) and a technics (again, can't remember the model number). I've pretty much been practicing on these now for some time. In terms of piano, I've been limited to a Novation Remote SL37, which as per the model name only has 37 keys. I use this to plug into my computer with Logic Pro X to trigger a VST that has a piano patch. I am investing in a new controller on friday, which has 61 keys (I'm specifically going for an M-Audio Oxygen 61 MkIV). The reason for this is it has 5 octaves (1 more than a Farfisa organ, I was trying to aim for getting "similar" equipment to help replicate technique) and has much more room than I'm used to, so hope this will open up more technique for me. Finally, I've also roped myself into playing the organ for a band. They know the level I'm at and are willing to take me on, mainly because I used to play drums for them but also because they know I'm intent on learning to play properly and that I probably won't without the experience with them - so they will be my guinea pigs!

Apologies for the absolute wall of text post but I think I definitely got carried away there! Thanks for any help and advice you give, in advance

[mjames]

No offense but I doubt you'll get helpful tips (if any) from this site. It's not that it's  bad site, it isn't. It's just that even though it says "Pianostreet" most of the (active) members don't care much for anything outside classical piano. Even the jazz dudes are somewhat ignored xD

I think you'd have a better shot if you asked this question at a less biased or more pop music oriented piano forum website.

I know I don't speak for all of the members, I just don't want you to patiently wait for answers that might not come at all.

Good luck

[schnez]

I appreciate that, thanks for your reply. I was just pursuing all avenues! Thanks

[dcstudio]

Even the jazz dudes are somewhat ignored xD

...ahem... and ladies... lol.

to the OP --yes my friend I am afraid you will not find too much help in music production here...  these are hard core classical piano students... you are a heathen keyboard player...lol. Most of these kids are 10 years in or more and they aren't even 18 yet.  I am allowed here because I am formally trained...  but I am just a curiosity for the most part.

whatever software you are using for audio production will have it's own forum... there is no better place to get help from like-minded souls..

[visitor]

...ahem... and ladies... lol.

to the OP --yes my friend I am afraid you will not find too much help in music production here...  these are hard core classical piano students... you are a heathen keyboard player...lol. Most of these kids are 10 years in or more and they aren't even 18 yet.  I am allowed here because I am formally trained...  but I am just a curiosity for the most part.

whatever software you are using for audio production will have it's own forum... there is no better place to get help from like-minded souls..

i feel you both. i love the jazzy/jazzical and seldom do others here seem drawn. same for VGM. 

and at least  you're a curiosity. i'm even further down the pecking order

[dcstudio]

   I have my uses around here...lol..   I am an old-timer... 20+ years teaching piano..  I can explain things quite clearly. Although I have been here 10 years as has my YT (with 1.7 million views) account of the same name... and I play professionally.   .. I am not a concert pianist...lol.  and I play mostly jazz... so... sigh... just a curiosity..  a meat popsicle...lol..

[phwree]

Do they stick to traditional scales or do they just stick with major chords? I struggle to understand this for the most part, especially when it comes to improvisation.
Is playing the organ a different ballpark entirely to the piano? Or are a lot of techniques transferable? This may seem like a stupid question, but I often think that maybe I should try and find specifically an organ tutor as opposed to a piano tutor.
What's going to be the best thing for me to focus on for the time being, to be able to play in this style?


Hey there!
For trying to work out the chords/scales/improvisations stuff:
I listen to a few of those tracks and yes they predominantly use major/minor chords (which are built from the appropriate scales) but there is definitely jazz influences. And jazz uses it's own variation of the "traditional" scales. They are pretty fun to play around with. From the tracks I've heard it's mainly added chromatic notes.

https://www.pianoscales.org/jazz.html looks helpful. I imagine the blues, pentatonic and bebop scales would be most useful to learn.
12 bar blues is always great practice for piecing chords and improv together.
Or if you can work out what (most) of the chords are in a track you could alternate between playing along with the chords and making up your own melody to fit. I don't really have tips on how to do that.... I just work it out by ear myself. But obviously using the notes from the scale of the key you're in + maybe a few added (dissonant) notes to make it interesting.

I myself am interested into getting into playing organ, but as of yet I have no clue how the technique transfer works. An organ tutor sounds helpful though.

[dcstudio]

the pedals are pretty funky at first.   The transfer is pretty easy though.. you won't have any problem making music..  what's tough is manipulating all the levers and figuring out what you are supposed to do with them.  That plus your feet on the pedals... it's a lot to get used to.

if you are planning on playing organ than you should find an organ teacher IMO... or one who can play both --that would be ideal.

[indianajo]

Well, look at this about "organ chords".  https://www.organforum.com/forums/showthread.php?24547-Organ-Chords/page2
you may want page 1, I have my profile set up to put newest on last page, newbies get the first one first.  
AndyG the moderator on organforum has several times recommended a set of out of print organ pedagogy books in several threads. I can't find one right now but it is not on home organ forum or practice and performance rock and jazz.  If you find an Andy post, he has a link to his website. He's got a lot of tracks records in my3 there.   I'm an experienced amateur piano player not taking that course, because in part I don't want to sound like that playing organ.  Also I'm working out my own organ playing technique, that doesn't sound like anything else I've heard anywhere.  
Organ players get away with playing with flatter fingers, and don't worry about their forearms running uphill, in part because electric organ takes a lot less force than piano. Also you are not as likely to injure yourself playing organ that way , compared to acoustic piano.  I view legato as legato on either keyboard, and play with my fingers arched anyway, although I may wear out the downstroke felts on an organ keyboard faster than a flat finger player.  They are $.40 parts glued in, big deal.  
Sound like you belong in both communities.  Here for piano and there for organ.  I'm active in both. And no I don't have a performance diploma from a conservatory, and no I don't feel I need one.  I'm playing pieces I hear on television at concerts, and at master's recitals over at the university, and I don't feel inferior because I can't learn that literature in three months the way the graduates can.  Also, I can play Ramblin Gamblin Man by ear, and the classical graduates can't.
I played scales as a 3rd year student, and mostly not since.  I don't see the obsession with them.  If I run into one in a piece, I can dredge up those memories in a day or two.  I do recommend physical exercises to build finger independence, strength, stamina, and specific techniques of the keyboard.  My progression was Schmitt/Edna Mae Berman/ Czerny school of velocity.  The tricks are not in the book, you need a teacher to point them out, or do a lot of searching on U-tube. 
Arpeggios may help sight reading, I may take up the practice of them some day. 
Have fun with both styles.  

[indianajo]

Uh, yes, here is AndyG's recommendation for an organ learning book. See post #2
https://www.organforum.com/forums/showthread.php?36942-Teach-myself-to-read-music-at-77