"But I love this song more than any other!"

[bizgirl]

I have a student who desperately wants to play a piece, which she insists she loves more than any other, that is a little above her level.  Normally I would have no problem with allowing a student to play an especially challenging piece, in fact, I usually encourage it.  However, this is the third song this student has "loved more than any other."  The first I let her try about a year ago.  She was getting into a rut with piano, not practicing much, etc. and I was hoping it would help her get her interested again.  She learned the first two lines and would not go any farther.  Eventually she found the second piece and we set the first one aside to work on the new one.  This one was much simpler than the previous piece.  The first week we worked through the introduction and when she played it for the next week I could tell she wasn't even trying.  She played the intro but she didn't even start on the right key.  (She does know how to read music.)  I pointed out that it started on F and she was playing it on C but the next week she came back playing it the exact same, incorrect way.  For the next month or so we repeated this process.  It was obvious she was not practicing the piece at home at all.  When I tried to teach her the next page of the song she actually refused to do it.  I should also mention that by this time I had agreed to take a break from her regular lesson material, in hopes that she would enjoy a few months of playing the music she had chosen.  So, now it has been a few months since piece #2.  I gave her method book way below her level, thinking she was getting discouraged by practicing that was...*hard*.  (Imagine that...hard practice...)  This has done absolutely nothing for her.  She still rarely practices.  At the past couple of lessons she has told me she wants to play this new song that she "loves more than any other" and, needless to say, I am a bit exasperated by past experiences.  I explained to her why I was very skeptical of letting her tackle this piece and, again, she repeated what she said about the other two pieces: she loves this one so much, she promises to do whatever is necessary to play it well, she will practice and hour every day, blah, blah, blah.  To which I am thinking "yeah right."  I guess, aside from the venting, I am really asking a three questions:
1. Have any of you had students like this?
2. How have you handled their requests?
3. What do you do to inspire students whose enthusiasm is declining?

[will]

1. I have never had a student like this, at least not to the degree you mention.

2. Try and find out what the student likes about the piece and find an easier piece that has the same qualities. For instance if the piece the student wants to play is in a minor key, has a slow tempo in 6/8 time, and a melancholy melody over an arpeggiated lower texture then try and find another piece that has all of the above features but is easier than the piece she really wants to play.

If the student refuses this then you could try a couple of things: (1) Get the student to play HS (since this will be easier than HT) while you play the other part. You could also record LH and RH alone and give this to the student to play along with at home (2) make a simplified version of the song the student really wants to play 

If the piece is only 'a little above her level' and the student says she will practice for an hour a day then she should be able to learn it if she practices correctly. To ensure these things happen you could try and get the student to record her practice sessions for the entire week. This way you can listen to her practice and see if she is practicing efficiently. It may also inspire her to actually practice...If the weeks recording last 10 minutes you can tell your student that she broke her promise and that it is no wonder that she can't play the piece.

3.  Try and find a piece that the student really wants to play and will be successful in playing...sounds easier said than done with the student you mention.
   Mix up the activities in the lesson. Perhaps the student would really enjoy composing, improvising, ensemble playing, conducting, arranging etc.

[cysoto]

Most piano teachers have a hard time facing the fact that the odds are stacked against you…  This and maybe every other student that you have taught, are teaching or will ever teach piano to will NEVER become a concert pianist.

There are many different reasons why kids or their parents are interested in learning the instrument but I can assure you that the idea of becoming a professional doesn’t cross the mind of most of them.  The main reason is to have fun!  It seems to me that this is all that this student is looking to achieve.  I see no reason for your frustration.  If this student feels so strongly about a song just incorporate it into the lesson plan.  This student is making your job easier because you are being told exactly what they expect to learn from you.  And above all: DO NOT LET YOUR EGO GET IN THE WAY!!

If the piece is above her skill level just look for portions of the song that are suitable for the student’s level or better yet look for an easier arrangement.  Don’t stop with your regular lesson plan.  Keep offering the basics and just add this new piece of music in small, manageable portions as a prize for achieving other goals. 

[Greg_Fodrea]

I've seen this scenario a few times in my own teaching.  My approach is to "make deals" with my students.  What I'll do is look for technical aspects of the piece they want to play (i.e. scales, chords, arpeggios, key changes, etc...), and then I'll let them know that I belive in them - that I think they can play the piece - but that there are a few skills they'll need to develop in order to do so.  With this approach, I've gotten a few of my more...um...stubborn students to actually do scale exercises, chord drills, and even simpler songs, all with the idea that they're "building up" to their piece.  Their piece becomes an incentive to keep working, and when they finally do learn it, they've learned how to set goals and work for the reward.

[dongsang153]

i've sorta been in this situation, not as a teacher but as a student.  my teacher would assign me a piece that i wanted to play.  i would get maybe the first two pages, but i didn't seem to ever get over the hump.  this was true with many pieces i played.  i would start a piece, but have trouble finish learning it. 

what i realized was that my teacher was giving me too much.  she would expect a 10 page piece learned (at least notewise) in one week.  my new teacher divided big pieces into smaller pieces, so what seemed to be a daunting task wasn't so bad.

my point here is, assign the piece into small sections.  and example would be to learn the first 50 measures hands separate...but perfect.  then the week after measure 1-50 HT and 51-100 HS.  then the week after that measures 1-50 memorize 51-100 HT and 101-150 HS.  something like that.  that really worked for me.  i think it also might more encouraging for your student since such a hard piece is broken down into smaller pieces and actually seem like something they could do. 

hope this was of help.   

[bizgirl]

Thanks everyone!  Will, you had some great ideas.  I know she chose the song because she heard it from a movie, not because of the style or technical elements.  I have already gotten the simplest arrangement I could find, but perhaps I could arrange one myself.  I just don't like to make things so extremely easy that the student, who isn't working on anything else, doesn't learn anything from it.  But I guess some pieces are used to teach technique, some are used to teach musicality, and some can be used just to keep the student interested!  I'm willing to try it. 

As far as practicing an hour a day, she won't do it.  Every once in a while I give my students a "challenge."  No two students have the same challenge, and usually no two students have a challenge at the same time.  After she said she would practice an hour a day we made that her challenge.  We picked one day of the next week that she didn't have much going on and I challenged her to practice and hour just that one day.  I told her to call me after she finished.  No call.  No practice.  I think I will try to have her record her practice sessions.  Excellent idea.

Your point about doing composing brought up another question, but I will start a new thread for that.  I'll have to come back later to reply to the rest of the posts.  Thanks again!

[Mycroft]

Berhard's requirement to have daily lessons, ensuring the student learns how to practice effectively sounds better all the time.

[cysoto]

Berhard's requirement to have daily lessons, ensuring the student learns how to practice effectively sounds better all the time.

That would be optimal but, in reality, not every parent has the money (or the commitment) to pay for daily piano lessons for their kids.  And with the schedule that modern kids are obligated to keep (10 hrs. of school and assignments, piano lessons, ballet, soccer, self-defense, etc.) it would be really difficult for them to add to this even 30 minutes of daily piano lessons (plus practice time).

So even though I respect the dedication that Berhard has for his students and for the instrument, I don't think that this type of instruction is practical for most students.

[Mycroft]

Are you talking about American kids?  What you wrote sounds more like Japanese students!     No wonder kids can't focus nowadays; it's not just the video games.  :-/

[bizgirl]

I'm seeing a common trend: break it down.  Whenever I get a new piece I always (and have always) sightread through the entire thing immediately after getting home from my lesson, just to get an idea of the piece.  I always have to remind myself that not everyone shares my curiosity.   In a way I did break it down (just giving her the intro hands seperate for a week), but maybe I should be more strategic in the way I assign it.  Perhaps, I won't assign her the parts she really likes (usually the theme) until she has learned some other sections or she teaches it to herself.  Do you usually start from the beginning and go straight through a piece, or teach it out of order?

Cysoto - You suggested just taking portions of the pieces and letting her play those. 

If the piece is above her skill level just look for portions of the song that are suitable for the student’s level or better yet look for an easier arrangement.

Do you mean she would eventually learn the whole piece?  Or do you think I should just let her do the little sections she likes?  I am afraid, if I did the latter, she would become even more lazy and never push herself to try anything slightly difficult.

I like Bernhard's daily lesson requirement too.  But, like you said, money and time is an issue.  I'm not sure impractical is the right word to describe it.  That word denotes something that is not beneficial.  I'm sure this method would produce great results in much less time than the typical music lesson system.  Who can complain about that?  Perhaps a better word would be stringent.  It is obviously very demanding for the student and parents, but very effective.  A lot of parents (I think it is even safe to say most parents) do not want to take music lessons this seriously when the student is just starting out.  But from a teaching perspective, if you want to ensure the students who come out of your studio are dedicated musicians, this is a great way to go.  No one would put up with the time required unless they were really serious about it.  Right now, I am just getting teaching experience and trying to build up my studio, so I am not that selective, but I am definitely donsidering it for the future.

[cysoto]

Do you mean she would eventually learn the whole piece?

Most definitely!  She has to be able play the whole song and not just bits and pieces.  You may start her with a verse instead of the intro and, just like you mentioned, hold back the chorus (or the most recognized part of the song) until she has mastered the rest of the song.

Popular songs tend to be constructed in a simple manner that repeats itself.  If she learns a verse she probably has a good third of the song down.  The other third is the chorus and finally the bridge and intro.  But like I said before, incorporate this song into your lesson plan.  For example, you can teach her a small portion of the song and then have her transpose that portion (this will help with her scales which most kids dislike to practice anyway).

Think outside the box – not traditional teaching methods.  You can incorporate chord construction, progressions, accompaniment, etc.  You are making it fun and they are learning what you want them to. 

My first piano teacher was a classically trained pianist and insisted in teaching “by the book”.  Piano lessons for me at that age were another “chore”.  I did it because I had to and not because I loved it.  Some years latter I changed instructors and this new piano teacher showed me that learning could be fun.  He used songs that I could recognize (instead of making me play Czerny and Chopin’s Etudes all the time).  All of a sudden I understood that there was more to piano than just classical music and I wanted to learn more and more songs that I could play for others and that they would sing with me. 

The funny thing is that I still enjoy playing classical and baroque music for myself but, whenever I get together with friends and family we all have more fun playing and singing songs that they all recognize. 

[cysoto]

Perhaps a better word would be stringent.  It is obviously very demanding for the student and parents, but very effective.

I have to agree with this 100%.  And you are right…  For a select group of outstanding students it would be unfair not to allow them to develop their full potential by not allowing them take daily lessons.