Problem in Third Movement of Moonlight Sonata

[tbsurf]

I have been trying to play the third movement of the Moonlight Sonata (no problem with the first two movements), on and off, for several years.  I feel like my reading skills and technique are getting close.  My stumbling block is the 4-5 finger trill on the F## octaves and grace notes into the G# (bar # 32, measure before the first A major chord).  I have tried practicing it many different ways, with very little progress.  I don’t have a problem with the similar trill and grace notes on the A# octaves (bar # 30), as my fifth finger is not having to negotiate black keys on each side (as on the F## trill).  I appreciate any help.

[dcstudio]

those trills are pretty tough...  I was always trying too hard and putting too much weight into the keys...it's a "flutter" type trill and the keys don't need to hit bottom. 

I tried to play this one long before I had the chops for it and failed pretty miserably.  When I did pull it back out and learn it, the hardest part was unlearning all the crap I had programmed into my fingers from before.  It is not nearly as difficult as it sounds or looks but there is something about that one that just drives people nuts with excitement... especially students... 

as I remember their are two accepted ways to play those ornaments you have mentioned and many editions have both ways printed.   Everyone picks the harder of the two, though--those blistering trills.  Try the other one.

[indianajo]

Those trills plus grace notes are the speed limiter for how fast I can play third movement.  When I am going to play it, first I figure out how fast I can play them today.  Age 65, this is a variable.  Then I play the movement that speed, and no faster. 
There are many performances played on the radio where people cheat.  Only two notes, you can go a lot faster.  Rudolph Serkin did this on the famous 1950's Colombia recording.  I feel it is not a trill unless you play at least four notes.  This limits my speed to quite a bit below what they play on the radio.  One performer that played the whole four notes was O'Brian - last year on WFMT service. 
Obviously speed limited, I'm going to win no piano contests.  But it is a beautiful piece, well worth playing for the art.  Leaving out the second and third parts is for beginning students, and makes the first part trite. The contrasts in the movements is great art. 

[dcstudio]

I figure out how fast I can play them today.  Age 65, this is a variable. 

oh kindred spirit... I HEAR YOU!! lol...  I am just a mere child of 51 but that is something I have to figure out each morning as well...  how well can I play this today.   Sometimes it's how well can I play this--right now.   A variable... that's a very nice way of putting it...lol. 

[preludetr]

Personally, I found that trill a bit tricky but after practicing it for a while I got it down pretty good. I just play the octave with 1-4 and prepare finger 3 on f# and 5 on g#. When it's time to do the trill I just go 4-5-4-3-4 while holding down my first finger. It's an awkward movement but doable. My piano has a light action so this may be why. It's possible that I would have more difficulty on a piano with a heavy action. It also could just be that some people will have a harder time due to the structure of their hands.

[tbsurf]

Thanks for the suggestions.  What is the second and easier way to play the trill?  I play 4 notes, plus the 3 grace notes.  Not that I play the section fast at all, but I do need to slow down to get that trill (but still make mistakes half the time).  This piece has always been my "Mount Everest" for piano performance - if you can play it, you can really play piano!

[dcstudio]

- if you can play it, you can really play piano!

lol...yeah that's what I used to think too... but there's an entire range of Mount Everest's that lay beyond that particular mvmt of that particular sonata..     learning it probably won't "do it" for you like you think it will...    it didn't for me..  and I firmly believed if I could play that then I would finally be able consider myself "a real classical pianist"--nope.. lol.   I was still the same neurotic pianist--just one who happened to be able to play the entire Moonlight Sonata..  

lol...it's not a bad thing really..  keeps me moving forward.

..and the other accepted way is not a trill at all but only grace notes as I remember.   I will try to find the edition I used--it's been quite a while.

[xdjuicebox]

You could be a baby and just pedal it and not hold the bottom note. Or you could do what I do, where I catch the octave on the sostenuto, half flutter pedal the sustain with the soft pedal partially depressed

Make sure the key lift is as minimal as possible